Satan lies to us

I find it interesting that “he’s lying” was the first conclusion a group of peers came to. Not the “yeah, just make sure you don’t sin” answer I’d anticipate but a “he’s wrong.” They stuck with that interpretation even after they got a little push back.

Thanks for sharing.

I find it interesting that “he’s lying” was the first conclusion a group of peers came to. Not the “yeah, just make sure you don’t sin” answer I’d anticipate but a “he’s wrong.” They stuck with that interpretation even after they got a little push back.

Thanks for sharing.

The missionary I was talking to was a convert. He was about 18 years old when he was baptized, then left on his mission one year later. It was pretty tough on him. One of his parents (I think it was his dad) was not a member. He had been “on fire” when he started his mission, but it really wore down on him. He had a lot of unique perspectives and was not as prone to following the standard Mormon social conventions on things.

So to carefully carry this a bit farther: If Satan is lying throughout the presentation, what are we to take from when he confirms to Eve that there is no other way? Was there another way or was he telling the truth then? If he was telling the truth then, how are we to know when he’s lying and when he’s telling the truth?

Personal context: I don’t believe in an actual Satan/Lucifer (and I actually believe Lucifer in the OT is referring to someone else), but I do believe in evil. I also believe evil doers can lie or mix truth with lies.

I remember having a similar conversation with my missionary companion. One of us was taking the position that Satan was so crafty, knowledgeable, and powerful that we cannot hope to overcome him on our own. The other was taking the position that Satan is such a helpless bug under the shoe of Jesus that together we will triumph easily. We were both right. It perspective shifts entirely depending on whether Jesus chooses to intercede and advocate on our behalf.

Speaking in general Christian terms…sin places us under the dominion of Satan. We are all lost and our good works are as filthy rags. It was Jesus that condescended to pay the ultimate price to purchase us from our bondage to Satan and sin.

Romans chapter 6

21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are now purchased servants to God our father. The atonement of Jesus continues to cover us and shelter us from the claims of Satan upon our soul.

Brad Wilcox gave a great talk on Grace within the Mormon context of works. It can be found here: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2013/09/his-grace-is-sufficient?lang=eng

Here’s some speculation that isn’t really my current opinion, this is just going off of what the Gospel teaches. What if everything Satan says in the video is instead a partial truth and a lie as well to twist the truth to benefit himself? Like when he says, ‘if any of you fail to live up to the covenants you make here in the temple today, you will be under my power’, it’s partially true going off what we’re taught because if we sin at all, we’re giving into Satan’s temptations, so at that moment we’re in his power in a sense. Like if you do what someone says, you could argue that you’re under that persons control for that short period. But at the same time, the church preaches a lot about how we have power over Satan because we are God’s children and also that we can come back from any sin because of the atonement. So if we say that his statement about being in his power as a partial truth and a partial lie to benefit him:

Truth: Satan is starting to influence us if we sin and can be tricky and sneaky so he may at least feel he has power over us when we sin.

Lie: we aren’t completely in his control like he makes it sound. We can always repent and go back to making our covenants, and we are always stronger than Satan if we choose to be.

Benefit to him: if we believe we are in his power, we may give up on trying to go back to our covenants. He may try and convince us that we have no way back so we will stay with him.

I don’t want to threadjack, but I think this is related. As I said, I don’t believe in a literal Satan, especially the kind that has some sort of supernatural power to influence our minds. Again, I do believe in evil and I do believe people do evil things. I do believe in the natural man and that the natural man has some tendencies to do some things that are “sinful.” In other words, I believe Satan gets much more credit than he deserves – much of our sin is from the urges/tendencies of the natural man without “Satanic” influence (magic). This does all relate to the temple from a certain point of view – the story does have to do with the fall of man (I wish it talked more about the redemption than it does), and the temple Lucifer could be symbolic of evil and the natural man. (Note that I do believe all of the endowment ceremony is symbolic.)

I actually met a person on my mission, who did not appear to be insane, who was truly shocked when she discovered we were Mormons and we didn’t have horns.

I’m still trying to convince one that we’re allowed to dance. Apparently she thinks “Church singles dance” is a code phrase for some other activity. I even showed her pictures, and her response was “those don’t look like Mormons.”