First Vision: God’s rant about religions

The first thing I find interesting is that the quote switches from paraphrasing in the beginning to direct quoting toward the end. JS was obviously comfortable with paraphrasing, so that later part must have been extremely important for him to remember it word for word. Note that the word “all” falls outside of the quoted portion, the word “all” appears in the portion that JS paraphrases.

The quoted portion is a take on Isaiah 29:13 (and quoted by JC in Matthew 15:8-9)

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men

The quoted portion could have been a continuation of paraphrasing an idea but JS transitioned over to quoting a familiar scripture to convey the meaning he (JS) wanted to convey. Isaiah 29:13 may seem like an isolated scripture for JS to be quoting but it appears directly after the infamous sealed book delivered to a learned man verses and immediately prior to the marvelous work and a wonder verses. I’m sure JS was very familiar with these verses and likely saw himself in them.

Those are some interesting verses read in context and when using different translations. The verses are certainly up for additional interpretations.

doesn’t this seem like a really unfair statement for God to make?

Are you willing to entertain the idea that perhaps god didn’t make that statement?

You never know which Jesus is going to show up on the scene, the he that is not against us is for us Jesus or the he that is not with me is against me Jesus, just ask Luke. People probably end up having a vision of the Jesus that they want/are ready to see.

JS certainly had a “thing” about creeds.

Methodists have creeds which a man must believe or be kicked out of their church. I want the liberty of believing as I please, it feels so good not to be trammelled. It don’t prove that a man is not a good man, because he errs in doctrine.

I stated that the most prominent difference in sentiment between the Latter-day Saints and sectarians was, that the latter were all circumscribed by some peculiar creed, which deprived its members the privilege of believing anything not contained therein, whereas the Latter-day saints have no creed, but are ready to believe all true principles that exist, as they are made manifest from time to time.

Of course it moves into a which came first territory? JS’s dislike of creeds influenced his vision or his vision influenced his dislike of creeds.

One thing is for sure, it ain’t 1830 anymore.

I do wonder what JS and his horror of creeds would think of our making the Articles of Faith required memorization for Primary children. Watch an eleven-year-old struggle through “paradisiacal” and tell me that kid REALLY believes what he is saying…

I have often wondered what Joseph Smith would think about the church were he here today. Is this what he envisioned? Would he even recognize it?

In describing the FV, Joseph told of things that happened and he also quoted things that were said (but not necessarily verbatim). It seems to me that while this revelation and the Moroni visits had lots of “sensory experience” mixed with words, the later revelations were mostly sensory. I think that’s a huge limitation in recording revelation – it’s not really possible to put feelings and impressions into words.

I’m struck by how similar it sounds to the story of David (granted David was called to be king by a prophet). Several others that looked more fitting for the job were passed up and David was chosen. David would go on to make some bad mistakes. It makes you wonder, would Eliab, Abinadab, Shammah, or any one of the seven other sons of Jesse been a better king had one of them been chosen instead of David… or would they have done worse things?

Was the selection of David more to prove a point, to teach a lesson – e.g. the birthright shouldn’t default to the eldest and to drive that point home we’re going to pick the youngest (common theme in the Bible). If the selection of David was a teaching moment did it ultimately matter who was selected?

Maybe JS was similar, we’re going to pick the weakest among you to drive home a point. In fact that was one thing that initially made sense to me when I was first investigating the church as a non-member. God picking some kid to usher forth his work. It sounded right up god’s alley.

But here’s another question: in 1,800 years of human history, do we think JS was the only person who prayed to know which church was true? I very much doubt that. I’m sure that even some of these corrupt professors of religion who come in for God’s condemnation were praying to Him on a regular basis. So how is it that JS is seemingly the only person exempt from the apostasy? The true church hadn’t actually been restored yet, so the apostasy was still ongoing. What made JS’ prayer so uniquely sincere that it was worthy of being answered in person?

Maybe hundreds of other people were visited by god, it’s just that JS was the first one to get enough traction to become popular enough for a restoration to succeed. Maybe god is continually trying to restore the gospel and we make it the right time and the right place when we start to listen to the message.

Chicken-and-egg question: do we think Joseph Smith restored the Church because he was special, or was he special because he restored the Church? In honor of this blessed May the Fourth, was he Luke Skywalker, or was he Han Solo?

I think you can make an argument either way, but I find that my personal philosophy demands an un-special Joseph.

I think it is critical to be very precise when discussing that verse, since it is far too easy to read more into them than what actually is there.

I wrote the following post on Mormon Matters back in 2008. It is a bit long, since I analyze the verse phrase-by-phrase:

http://mormonmatters.org/2008/08/27/common-scriptures-in-review-jsh-119/

That verse still is offensive to others, but it is much more focused on the Protestant creeds and their effects than most members realize.

Exactly, nibbler – I’m having to move away from the idea that these were God’s exact words. Especially if you look at the timing of this version of the First Vision – wasn’t it written down around the time the Kirtland bank collapsed? Which do I think is more likely – that God is some kind of unfair jerk who allows an apostasy to happen and then gets mad at everybody for not having the whole truth, OR, Joseph Smith was trying to bolster his claims of exclusive truth at a time when his reputation had taken a beating.

I’d never made that connection about the timing of the 1838 account of the first vision (to the Kirtland Safety Society Scandal). Interesting insight. This was also about the same time as Joseph Smith and his loyal followers fled Kirtland to Far West. Thanks Joni!