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  • #210725
    Always Thinking
    Guest

    Does it ever bother any of you who keep your faith crisis quiet that you’re kind of living a lie? Sometimes I feel like I’m so fake. My mom is my best friend besides my husband but I haven’t even shared my faith crisis with her because I know her and how she’ll worry about my soul. She also is very happy that me and my 15 year old sister are close, but sometimes I wonder if she would still be happy about it if she knew I was struggling. I try not to influence my sister negatively but it’s hard when we’re close so I’ve suggested music to her before with bad words and I’ve sometimes expressed my not so orthodox views with her and things like that. I try my best to keep most of it to myself though. But sometimes I worry that my parents will somehow find out that I struggled with the church farther down the road, like say if I leave the church or something, and my sister is struggling too, that they may blame me for influencing her. Since I was so TBM growing up, I worry that that’s what my parents expect is my influence on her right now but it’s not. So anyways, my questions are, do you ever feel like you’re living a lie? How do you get past it? And also, how do you know if you’re a bad influence, church wise, on younger siblings? Is it bad to not be a good church influence? I know i’m a good support system for her but I don’t think i’m the best church support and idk what to think about that.

    #311402
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Always Thinking wrote:

    So anyways, my questions are, do you ever feel like you’re living a lie?


    Yes, and it used to really bother me.

    Always Thinking wrote:

    How do you get past it?


    I don’t think I’m completely past it, but what helps is that I’ve admitted to myself, and even my DW that I’m not a literal believer and I struggle with a lot of things about the Church. I wish I could be more authentic with my beliefs (or lack thereof) and not cause major family stress though.

    Always Thinking wrote:

    And also, how do you know if you’re a bad influence, church wise, on younger siblings?


    My siblings are all adults, but I do worry about my influence on my children. I can see how you worry that your “liberal” (non-TBM) beliefs or behaviors might go against what your parents are trying to teach your siblings, and you do need to respect that. But you don’t have to be someone that you aren’t. Just focus on being a good big sister to your younger siblings and be there for them and let them know that you love them.

    Always Thinking wrote:

    Is it bad to not be a good church influence? I know i’m a good support system for her but I don’t think i’m the best church support and idk what to think about that.


    I wouldn’t worry so much about your church support, and just be who you are and be there for her to support her. Isn’t that what Christ would do?

    #311403
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Always Thinking wrote:

    So anyways, my questions are, do you ever feel like you’re living a lie?


    Yes, most of the time. I mean, I do have a testimony of the fundamental doctrines encompassed by the Plan of Salvation as Mormonism teaches, but I struggle with so many issues (policies, etc. and the general membership’s apparent views that the General Authorities can’t make mistakes). I teach Relief Society, and people always tell me what a good teacher I am. Unfortunately, much of the time, I am afraid to teach what I really believe. It’s hard to find a balance between lifting and helping other people and still being true to yourself. What I try to do is live my life with integrity. I may not be able to be completely open with people in how I feel, but I do try not to be outright dishonest with them. It requires a degree of tongue-biting.

    #311404
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Always Thinking wrote:

    Does it ever bother any of you who keep your faith crisis quiet that you’re kind of living a lie?


    Yes. It is causing emotional turmoil – or maybe emotional churning is a better word for it now. At one time I think it was turmoil, but it has calmed just a bit.

    Always Thinking wrote:

    My mom is my best friend besides my husband but I haven’t even shared my faith crisis with her because I know her and how she’ll worry about my soul. She also is very happy that me and my 15 year old sister are close, but sometimes I wonder if she would still be happy about it if she knew I was struggling.


    I think my mom (and all my siblings for that matter) think of me as the most TBM. I do worry about how my mom would take me admitting I don’t really believe all that much.

    I think it is much worse that I am not leveling with my wife. She knows I had a FC and there are some things I don’t march in lock step on. She thinks I am being really rebellious when I raise my left hand when sustaining someone (BTW – the church handbook of instruction no longer prescribes “raise your right hand”, but just says “raised hand”). I do expect it is going to be a good reaction. I am trying to think through possible reactions and preparing my reaction to be as Christ-like as I can.

    Always Thinking wrote:

    But sometimes I worry that my parents will somehow find out that I struggled with the church farther down the road, like say if I leave the church or something, and my sister is struggling too, that they may blame me for influencing her. Since I was so TBM growing up, I worry that that’s what my parents expect is my influence on her right now but it’s not. So anyways, my questions are, do you ever feel like you’re living a lie?


    My siblings are all grown and a few of my kids are out of the house, but I still have some kids at home. I worry about how confusing it will be for them. This is my biggest concern. I have considered holding on for another year or two until they have left the nest, but I am not sure I can.

    Always Thinking wrote:

    How do you get past it? And also, how do you know if you’re a bad influence, church wise, on younger siblings? Is it bad to not be a good church influence? I know i’m a good support system for her but I don’t think i’m the best church support and idk what to think about that.


    It does seem to me there are many here on staylds.com that have learned to live with it and are rather orthoprax (doing things that Mormon’s do) in their day to day activities even though they are very unorthodox. I just don’t feel I can stay that “in” without mental distress. I don’t plan on resigning and I plan on attending somewhat regularly some meetings. But I don’t see me staying where I am at now. I want to do less church things and more volunteer work to help people.

    #311405
    Anonymous
    Guest

    To anyone who feels uncomfortable living a lie, I have just one piece of advice: don’t live a lie. Our lives are a wonderful gift. There may or may not be a life after this one (I believe, no, but I respect those who believe there is). Why in the world would we want to spend the short time that we are alive living in self-imposed hiding? I now tell whoever I want to tell, and it has changed my life for the better. I don’t tell everyone, because it’s not everyone’s business. But all of my family and key friends know. If I ever find myself in a situation where I don’t believe I can be true to myself, that’s when I start telling.

    For anyone who believes they are protecting the feelings of someone else, simply ask yourself this. If the roles were reversed, would you want or expect the other person to live a phony life in the shadows in order to protect your feelings?

    As for the little sister, I suggest that you focus on what you do believe and celebrate what she believes without the need to explain yourself. That desire to justify ourselves is so strong in us that we frequently get into uncomfortable situations. I tell people I’m not a believer but that I have complete respect for their faith, and I never get into conversations that could be viewed as trying to ‘enlighten’ anyone else. It’s their faith; it’s none of my business.

    Lastly, let me say that I did live a lie for a lot of years and it was disastrous. It forced me into ever-deepening depression. When I finally came clean, it was like a light coming back on. So, when I say “don’t live a lie”, I speak with the experience of both sides of it.

    #311406
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I am fairly open about my church issues. I do not advertise my position or look to create drama, but I do not particularly my hide my issues either. My immediate family knows. My youngest is 16. She knows that I am supportive of her religious choices and that I do encourage her to go to church with her dad. She is also aware that I usually stay home.

    My bishop is aware, ward members are figuring it out .. But I have not had a significant discussion about it with my mom. She is 83 and lives 2000 miles away. She knows I no longer wear temple garments and that I “am figuring out my relationship with the church.” Telling her that I am in the process of leaving would serve no purpose. It is easy to show up to visit her, talk about family and friends, and not go into a deep theological discussion that would do nothing but upset her.

    I don’t believe I am living a lie on any level .. But I don’t give ammunition out to people who would hurt me.

    #311407
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have more to say, but I have limited time at the moment. Here’s a poem I like:

    Quote:

    We wear the mask that grins and lies,

    It hides our cheeks and shades our eyes,—

    This debt we pay to human guile;

    With torn and bleeding hearts we smile,

    And mouth with myriad subtleties.

    Why should the world be over-wise,

    In counting all our tears and sighs?

    Nay, let them only see us, while

    We wear the mask.

    We smile, but, O great Christ, our cries

    To thee from tortured souls arise.

    We sing, but oh the clay is vile

    Beneath our feet, and long the mile;

    But let the world dream otherwise,

    We wear the mask!


    -Paul Laurence Dunbar

    #311408
    Anonymous
    Guest

    On Own Now wrote:

    To anyone who feels uncomfortable living a lie, I have just one piece of advice: don’t live a lie.

    I recall an experienced hospice nurse talked about the 5 top regrets she heard over and over at peoples death beds http://www.topinfopost.com/2014/05/12/top-5-regrets-people-make-on-their-deathbed” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.topinfopost.com/2014/05/12/top-5-regrets-people-make-on-their-deathbed Here they are:

    1. I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.

    2. I wish I didn’t work so hard.

    3. I wish I’d had the courage to express my feelings.

    4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.

    5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.

    I can already see a few of these in me. I am into my 50’s now and it is starting to feel like there isn’t all that much more time to try and correct some of these for myself.

    #311409
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This is a difficult question to answer. In the years before I talked with DW about my FC I felt I was living a lie. Even then I would have hesitated in answering the question in the affirmative. My journey was much like Bednar’s talk “The Spirit of Revelation” where he describes the transition from night to morning as an “almost imperceptible increase in light.” I’m not trying to say that one path was wrong and one right but if you had asked me at any point in time if I were living a lie I’d probably lean yes… but there was a newfound uncertainty in my direction, that type of uncertainty was new to me and took some time to get used to.

    On Own Now wrote:

    Lastly, let me say that I did live a lie for a lot of years and it was disastrous. It forced me into ever-deepening depression. When I finally came clean, it was like a light coming back on. So, when I say “don’t live a lie”, I speak with the experience of both sides of it.

    I’m starting to feel the same way but I did want to add another phase or two that was present in my transition.

    1) Those initial moments where I felt I was living a lie but those feelings were tempered with uncertainty, what if I’m wrong about my new thoughts?

    2) Feeling like I was living a lie but growing in confidence with some of my conclusions.

    I’d flutter between #1 and #2 for years.

    3) I had an identity crisis. It’s hard to say “I’m living a lie” when I didn’t even know who I was anymore. This likely happened as a result of being just as uncertain about where I was going as I was about where I had been. As an orthodox member of the church I let the doctrines tell me who I was, suddenly I was in the position of being responsible for coming up with the answer to the question “who am I?” and it took a long time to work through and a long time to gain enough confidence in myself to become my own authority on me.

    4) I might call this the “I think I know who I am but still care what others think about me” phase. This phase stinks and can feel like living a lie. This is where I worried about my social status. This is where I also worried about the social status of people in my family.

    5) The before Abraham was, I Am phase? Maybe the Popeye phase: I am what I am, and that’s all that I am.

    It’s hard for me to definitively say I was living a lie at any given point. Is doing the best you can with what life has thrown at you living a lie?

    #311410
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Part 2

    Always Thinking wrote:

    Does it ever bother any of you who keep your faith crisis quiet that you’re kind of living a lie?

    You know what’s ironic. When I was orthodox I didn’t feel the need to talk about my faith very much, if at all. I was swimming with the current, everyone knew what everyone else believed, why bother bringing it up, so I sat mostly in silence. During my FC suddenly I had this big desire to blab my thoughts on life, the universe, and everything from the rooftops. 🙂 Now that the dust is settled I’m right back to keeping mostly quiet about my faith. Was wanting to blab from the rooftops the more genuine me or was the stoic mute silently contemplating in the corner the more genuine me?

    Always Thinking wrote:

    And also, how do you know if you’re a bad influence, church wise, on younger siblings?

    I don’t have siblings but I do have a kid. I don’t worry about being a bad influence church wise. If someone had taught me from the beginning that there are good and bad things in the church, that it’s okay to say that “this particular lesson doesn’t apply to me” then it would have saved me a lot of grief later in life. It appears that this is what happened with DW. She’s orthodox and is able to internalize just the things that she needs to internalize, whereas when I was orthodox I internalized everything. I don’t see it in terms of being a bad influence, I see it as striking a healthier balance.

    I did want to mention, when we talk about living a lie I think there are two elements: 1) lying to ourselves 2) feeling like we aren’t being genuine with others. There are very few people in my life that need to know the real me, DW being first on the list (right after myself I guess).

    I don’t want to be untrue to myself. That’s important. Everyone else is somewhere on the gradient of a need to know basis. Post FC, it’s not too much different than the way things were before. Pre crisis I didn’t go into work or other random social situations and talk about my church beliefs. Post transition I keep a similar lid on my brand of crazy while at church. I mean, if you really think about it most people in the world don’t care what other people believe. ;)

    #311411
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Even though I am buying into very little of the LDS experience, I am NOT living a lie….I think whether you are living a lie is a matter of degree.

    1) Intensity

    If I was serving as a gospel teacher, priesthood leader, and regularly sharing TBM ideas I did not agree with — that would be inauthentic. But if you reduce the intensity of your participation in the LDS church, then you are not living a lie. You are being authentic. I am a non-TR holding, callingless, non-teaching Mormon. And that is what I AM at church, and good with that now.

    If you align the intensity of your LDS experience with your true beliefs, then you are being authentic. If you don’t believe, or don’t agree with many things, then don’t accept callings that require you to be inauthentic about them. At the same time, participate in a level that you are comfortable with. THAT is authentic. But tempered by other factors below —

    2) Personal Outcomes

    I believe that 100% authenticity is rarely ever possible in life. Are you nakedly honest with that boss you can’t stand? Do you tell your spouse, honestly, they’ve lost their youthful beauty or handsomeness? Do you bite your tongue when certain issues come up, knowing that if you told the truth, you’d offend the whole room at work? Probably not.

    Why? Because the outcomes you are achieving in your life also represent a form of authenticity — an expression of who you are. You are employed, successful in your career, and financially self-reliant. Biting your tongue at work preserves those outcomes.

    So, from an StayLDS perspective, keeping my contrarion ideas to myself (locally) provides a stable religious environment for my family, keeps my marriage stable, and keeps me free to interact with the church in the future on whatever terms I choose — even holding a TR again someday if I want. Naked honesty has not cut off these outcomes. Those outcomes are expressions of what I am — a hopefully good father and good husband (at least better than if I was bashing the church locally all the time) with freedom to live his life as he chooses in church, in the future.

    Now, if your spouse will divorce you if you don’t renew your TR, then there will be more tension than if s/he is OK with you not having one. Then there is a need for creativity…I believe there is a way out if discussed and approached with wisdom.

    3) Church Outcomes

    I am contrarion at heart when it comes to certain church matters — such as callings and releases, leader-member relationships, etcetera, and the time and resource demands leaders make on the membership — without consideration for a whole host of variables I think they should be considering about the effect on the general membership.

    And my behavior reflects that. I refuse callings if I don’t want them in my life. I don’t make sacrifices I feel are unreasonable.

    4) Other outcomes

    At the same time, I hope my character is progressing — I serve others a lot in extra-church contexts. I am generally self-actualizing without any help from the church whatsoever, except perhaps their influence on my children as they navigate the dangerous youth and young adult years. Because the church is only 5% of my life right now, these “other outcomes’ get my authenticity quotient up to a level where I don’t feel emotionally strapped by my LDS experience. It’s only when I have a skirmish with it (inviting you to take a position, pressure to get a TR, etcetera) that it gets distressing, but the moment passes after you deal with it. The LDS experience becomes 3-6 hours of your 168 hour week. Less than 5% of your life experience…

    But there is a price for all this. I am not fully accepted in the LDS community now. I hear they say negative things about me behind closed doors in leadership meetings. I probably won’t have leadership positions of any import in the future in my current Stake. But I don’t care either. You have to accept the consequences of being authentic to be at peace.

    You can’t have it both ways.

    #311412
    Anonymous
    Guest

    JS said that the catalyst that started it all was that in the midst of struggles, he came across a statement that said: “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God…”.

    For my own part, in the midst of my own struggles, I came across a statement: “Family secrets are not good”. In my case, I didn’t read that in the bible, I was told it by my psychologist. For me, it was the catalyst to begin to get my life back. And what I found was that all the things I was so afraid of were much less painful than the living in fear of them had been.

    For those who decide to come clean with family/friends, let me say two things:

    – What you believe and what you believe in are far far far more important than what you don’t believe. Never confuse the two. Don’t let yourself be defined by what you do not believe. When you are ready to start telling loved ones, be prepared to tell them what you now believe, rather than focusing on what you no longer believe.

    – Be very careful not to explain yourself in terms that are contrasting with another person’s faith. I see it so often and it’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion. For example, don’t say, “I don’t believe JS was a prophet because of the Kinderhook Plates.” Immediately that puts the other person on the defensive. Intended or not, that statement is an attack on another person’s faith. And it almost always escalates… “and the ban thing, and polygamy, and how we treat gay people, and three hours of church, and white shirts, and no crosses… and and and…”. As I said before, I never ever ever have a conversation with any person where I expound on reasons why I believe what I believe. I just say I’m not a believer and then I focus on positive and uplifting things as much as I can. When I recently told a HPGL that I wasn’t a believer any more, I also said that I am grateful for my upbringing in the Church and I don’t have an agenda and I hope to keep attending and being part of the ward family.

    #311413
    Anonymous
    Guest

    OON,

    Thanks for this advice and I think it is good.

    When I do come out to family and a few close friends, I don’t want it to be an argument. I am still working on it(and will be for months as I am TOOO busy right now).

    What I plan on saying is:

    Quote:

    I find it all confusing and the more I tried to dig deeper the worst it got until I stopped and tried to ask God if this was what he wanted me to do and I didn’t get an answer.” I will follow that up with I am grateful for my upbringing and what I have been taught. I have no desire to convince anybody else to follow me. I am just saying it does not make sense to me and I am at peace with God on disengaging a bit. I will fully support others that feel Mormonism brings them closer to God and in fact I encourage them to follow what they feel God is telling them to do.

    I feel that with that statement I won’t start arguments. If someone wants to share their testimony of the church, I will respond with, “That is great, I encourage you in your efforts. Let me know if I can be of help.”

    OON – do you think this goes along with your advice?

    #311414
    Anonymous
    Guest

    LH, I love it. My favorite part:

    LookingHard wrote:

    I am at peace with God on disengaging a bit. I will fully support others that feel Mormonism brings them closer to God and in fact I encourage them to follow what they feel God is telling them to do.

    I wish you the best when you are ready, my friend.

    #311415
    Anonymous
    Guest

    nibbler wrote:

    3) I had an identity crisis. It’s hard to say “I’m living a lie” when I didn’t even know who I was anymore. This likely happened as a result of being just as uncertain about where I was going as I was about where I had been. As an orthodox member of the church I let the doctrines tell me who I was, suddenly I was in the position of being responsible for coming up with the answer to the question “who am I?” and it took a long time to work through and a long time to gain enough confidence in myself to become my own authority on me.


    I think this is where I’m at right now and I’m really struggling to know who I really am. Being a multi-generational Mormon growing up in the Mormon Corridor, the Church has always been a big part of my life purpose and my identity. From the time I was little, I sang songs like “I am a Child of God” and “I Hope They Call Me On a Mission.” My life and my identity have revolved around the Church for almost 50 years. What do you do when that foundation literally crumbles beneath your feet?

    This is rough! I feel so alone. As much as I’m trying to shed the negatives about my LDS identity, I just can’t shake it. I guess I’m struggling with how to be “in the Church, but not of the Church.” :crazy: TBM-Mormonism is still so much a part of my life, my family, and the culture I live in.

    I would love to take a sabbatical to try to figure out who I am (independent of the Church), but I fear the consequences. I doubt that my marriage could survive it.

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