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I know that we have a pretty diverse group of people along the LDS spectrum in this group. Some have pretty orthodox beliefs and have never experienced a faith crisis, others have been through a faith crisis and have re-assembled their beliefs in a nuanced way that works for them, others are currently struggling with what they believe, and still others no longer believe or attend church. What we all have in common is the desire to remain connected to the Church somehow. My current position is more toward the unbelief side of the spectrum, and I believe very little if any of the truth claims of the church, and I don’t even see a lot of good in the Church leadership anymore. If it were just me, I would fade away quietly into inactivity. But I can’t. If I were to do that, I fear I would sacrifice my relationships with the people I love the most.
For those that have made it through a faith crisis and have been able to reconstruct something that works for them, how did you do it? How can you StayLDS and feel good about it? I’m really trying to find a way to make this work for me, but it just hurts so much and I can’t stand the cognitive dissonance.
Am I ever going to find a way to make this work for me? Or maybe I just need to fade away?
FaithfulSkeptic wrote:how did you do it? How can you StayLDS and feel good about it?
I have found a way to see some good things, and I cling to those with all I got.
I really do feel a connection and sense of community. I am more of an extrovert, so I seek people out, try to play basketball with a group of guys, ask friends to lunch, do home teaching, serve in callings, help folks move, clean the church.
I think by doing things…all the big mystical things are put in place for me.
It is the part about embracing paradox…there is no way this can all literally be true…but there is truth because of how I love others and practice that love at church. It is true and it is not true.
It all makes my head spin…but…at the end of the day…there are good people in my ward (along with crazies). It seems to be a part of our family. So I do my part along with the other family members that don’t want to go to church but do it anyway. We don’t all sit and wallow in our misery (even though all of us want to skip)…we do it because we do it, and we look for some good along the way.
That’s how I stay. I focus on others, and let go of a lot. It is cafeteria style for me.
No matter where I would go, some important issues would follow me – religions being built on the foundation of factually untrue stories, institutions being more concerned with self-preservation than individuals, women being lesser than in every tradition I’m aware of. My life wouldn’t be magically better if I left, and all my cosmic questions won’t be answered. I have big family incentives to stay. I have a debt of gratitude for everyone who’s “been there” for me. Even if I committed myself on some level to another faith, I would always attend here with my husband because there’s just nothing in my experience (speaking only for myself) that would justify not being with him in sacrament meeting.
The Sabbath is really important to me, and I do think that LDS life helps me observe it, “delight” in it.
My relationship with God and Christ are becoming increasingly personal and portable.I don’t rule out finding another situation that aligns better with my values, which helps me not to feel panicked right now.
We are like sailors who on the open sea must reconstruct their ship but are never able to start afresh from the bottom. Where a beam is taken away a new one must at once be put there, and for this the rest of the ship is used as support. In this way, by using the old beams and driftwood the ship can be shaped entirely anew, but only by gradual reconstruction. – Otto van NeurathI love my own view of the theology FAR more than any other Christian denomination – including the yet unfulfilled potential I see in it. If I left, I wouldn’t have a better “home” that would give me what I would lose. I also feel a deep connection to my tribe, particularly for those of my youth who allowed me to be the odd one who saw things so differently than everyone else. Part of my focus is identifying others who see things differently and supporting them. I preach about Elder Wirthlin’s orchestra a lot, and I believe it makes a difference in my own sphere of influence.
Ann wrote:No matter where I would go, some important issues would follow me – religions being built on the foundation of factually untrue stories, institutions being more concerned with self-preservation than individuals, women being lesser than in every tradition I’m aware of. My life wouldn’t be magically better if I left, and all my cosmic questions won’t be answered.I have big family incentives to stay. I have a debt of gratitude for everyone who’s “been there” for me. Even if I committed myself on some level to another faith, I would always attend here with my husband because there’s just nothing in my experience (speaking only for myself) that would justify not being with him in sacrament meeting. The Sabbath is really important to me, and I do think that LDS life helps me observe it, “delight” in it.
My relationship with God and Christ are becoming increasingly personal and portable.I don’t rule out finding another situation that aligns better with my values, which helps me not to feel panicked right now.Ann — the stuff I bolded above I agree with exactly.
I particularly like your observation of the things that are problematic in many religions and institutions in general:
Quote:No matter where I would go, some important issues would follow me – religions being built on the foundation of factually untrue stories, institutions being more concerned with self-preservation than individuals, women being lesser than in every tradition I’m aware of. My life wouldn’t be magically better if I left, and all my cosmic questions won’t be answered.
This is particularly a good capture of how I feel about religions and organizations in general. It took minimizing the church in my life and searching for the perfect organization (I say that tongue in cheek) until finally, I found they were “all wrong” and started my own. A non-profit, not a religion, but it serves my humanitarian needs.
All of them get egocentric at times, although I find the church was the most extreme example of organizational egocentrism. Probably because they have big fat levers to convince you to do things (TR’s, salvation, eternal family) that other volunteer organizations do not. So the bite is a lot deeper, and its harder to leave it without all this guilt, network of friendships destroyed etcetera. And in the church the egocentrism is amplified in its wrongness because the church claims to have divinity at its head. When it acts like any other temporal organization, it makes the fall even bigger than in a little volunteer non-profit.
To add to what Ann said, I stay and feel good about it by putting definite limits on what I will and will not do in the church. The Bishop hit me with three different callings a while ago until I finally agreed to one of them — something minimal, and only after my life settles down in a month or two, probably when school goes back. I’m not moving, I’m not setting up chairs, and I’m not chasing less actives or getting involved in other time wasters. I’m not working myself to the bone, and I’m not tolerating interperseonal BS and politics from people that are destructive to my spirit. That latter stuff happens and they will see the back of me for a while.
You want me at a meeting I need to know what the agenda is, even if it’s a general priesthood meeting. I don’t do anything unless I see value in it and it doesn’t make it uncomfortable for me given the state of my belief.
And then, keep my mouth shut at church and locally, or it will go straight back to the Stake Presidency in PPI’s. Plus you can hurt yourself by being too open. It’s a much more peaceful existence locally to fly under the radar.
Finally, stop expecting much from the church. They are volunteers. The church hasn’t put the resources into paying people to do their jobs well (SP’s, BP’s) although many care and do a good job in spite of that. But don’t expect them to be available for you, don’t expect them to reciprocate when you are in need. Low expectations is part of staying with inner peace at your side…
I don’t want to sound trite, but I stay by focusing on what I do believe. The core of that is that I believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and I do believe the church teaches the gospel. I’m fluid on lots of related things like prayer. Other things I just plain don’t believe and I ignore those. My own connection to and relationship with God is independent of any church. I think this is what Ray was referring to as his own view of theology. I like my own religion, it how I understand things and it makes perfect sense to me and thus for me is “true.” The church, for me, is part tribe/social/cultural and a smaller part a place to worship. While I like the way we do things (it allows me to worship on my own terms), I am open to the idea there might be somewhere else that’s just as good – but I haven’t found another place that provides both my personal worship and the amount of social interaction I desire (which sometimes is not much and other times more). I know about an old lighthouse that has had a rough history. People criticized the lighthouse for not being bright enough (by the time sailors saw the light they were already in treacherous waters), it got banged up during the civil war, the original tower was deemed inadequate (too short and was in danger of falling), the new tower got struck by lightning and the masonry walls cracked, the lighthouse was abandoned for a while. The lighthouse was also built on sand, the beach eventually eroded the shoreline to the point where the encroaching sea became a threat. People made the light brighter, the damage to the light in the tower during the war was repaired, people tore down the short, unstable tower and replaced it with a tower that at the time was the tallest brick lighthouse in the world, people engineered a solution for the cracks in the masonry, the lighthouse was moved (in tact and at great expense) further inland.
A regular tax boondoggle, right?
I love trying to draw analogies in my journey to the true (but oversimplified) story of the lighthouse.
Life isn’t easy. You don’t get to build a tower and just sit back and enjoy it. People will criticize, wars will rage and do their damage, and mother nature may conspire. To build a lighthouse is to accept that problems will arise.
- I love the imagery of the lighthouse being built on a foundation of sand. ♪ The foolish man built his house upon the sand. ♪ What do we do when all the world is sand but there is still need of a lighthouse? The lighthouse in the story was moved knowing full well that in a hundred years or so it would have to be moved again for the same reason.
- There’s a need for lighthouses. They provide a service to boats. It doesn’t matter whether the boat is the national guard, a rescue ship, a tugboat, a cruise liner, or a pirate ship; the lighthouse provides it’s service unconditionally.
- The lighthouse doesn’t exist in a vacuum. At various times the lighthouse was rendered (or considered) useless. People took the initiative to preserve the lighthouse, increasing the capacity of its light, making a higher tower, etc. The lighthouse both gives and receives service.
- There’s something to ponder in there about the older tower being inadequate or being on an unsafe foundation necessitating that a new tower be built. The new tower isn’t perfect, but its there.
- The lighthouse sits in relative isolation, only really receiving attention when it is being criticized or when it is undergoing a transition.
So yeah, when all the world appears to be sand one building site can be as good as any other. If I have a thing for sea travel I might want to serve people in boats and want to have the people that are in the boats take an interest in improving me and making sure that I don’t fall. If that’s the case I might find my home by the edge of the sea, endlessly looking out over the waves that drive and toss while I temporarily rest on my sandy foundation.
nibbler wrote:I know about an old lighthouse that has had a rough history. People criticized the lighthouse for not being bright enough (by the time sailors saw the light they were already in treacherous waters), it got banged up during the civil war, the original tower was deemed inadequate (too short and was in danger of falling), the new tower got struck by lightning and the masonry walls cracked, the lighthouse was abandoned for a while. The lighthouse was also built on sand, the beach eventually eroded the shoreline to the point where the encroaching sea became a threat.
People made the light brighter, the damage to the light in the tower during the war was repaired, people tore down the short, unstable tower and replaced it with a tower that at the time was the tallest brick lighthouse in the world, people engineered a solution for the cracks in the masonry, the lighthouse was moved (in tact and at great expense) further inland.
A regular tax boondoggle, right?
I love trying to draw analogies in my journey to the true (but oversimplified) story of the lighthouse.
Life isn’t easy. You don’t get to build a tower and just sit back and enjoy it. People will criticize, wars will rage and do their damage, and mother nature may conspire. To build a lighthouse is to accept that problems will arise.
- I love the imagery of the lighthouse being built on a foundation of sand. ♪ The foolish man built his house upon the sand. ♪ What do we do when all the world is sand but there is still need of a lighthouse? The lighthouse in the story was moved knowing full well that in a hundred years or so it would have to be moved again for the same reason.
- There’s a need for lighthouses. They provide a service to boats. It doesn’t matter whether the boat is the national guard, a rescue ship, a tugboat, a cruise liner, or a pirate ship; the lighthouse provides it’s service unconditionally.
- The lighthouse doesn’t exist in a vacuum. At various times the lighthouse was rendered (or considered) useless. People took the initiative to preserve the lighthouse, increasing the capacity of its light, making a higher tower, etc. The lighthouse both gives and receives service.
- There’s something to ponder in there about the older tower being inadequate or being on an unsafe foundation necessitating that a new tower be built. The new tower isn’t perfect, but its there.
- The lighthouse sits in relative isolation, only really receiving attention when it is being criticized or when it is undergoing a transition.
So yeah, when all the world appears to be sand one building site can be as good as any other. If I have a thing for sea travel I might want to serve people in boats and want to have the people that are in the boats take an interest in improving me and making sure that I don’t fall. If that’s the case I might find my home by the edge of the sea, endlessly looking out over the waves that drive and toss while I temporarily rest on my sandy foundation.
How about this? We each make a hundred hard copies of this and “forget” them in various locations around Temple Square. Some would have to make their way up the chain. To hear something like this in General Conference: Heaven!
I am someone who could walk away easily. The present family I live with is detached from it and my walking away would make home life smoother, but somehow I can’t fully pick that road yet. My transition happened because a family member crashed on the rocks of Mormonism. In trying to help I had to learn, in trying to learn the story tipped. Yet early on I expressed to this family member that all the history had always been there, whether we knew it or not, and in all those years of unknowing we felt God’s presence – how does that work? There could be a myriad of answers for that, but for me I realized my faith whatever that was had been my anchor. After a long time of examining it I came to Jesus Christ. Like DJ and Ray I sort of created my own religion from there. I can’t answer resurrections or atonements in the LDS way but I find Matthew 5 a bright light to steer my ship by. Thank you Nibbler.
Last of all, I believe things can be made true. I’ve lived to long and watched things morph, to help with the morphing I try to implement Matthew 5 into my efforts. Will I change the world? No, but I can nudge the needle a bit.
The questions are: Quote:For those that have made it through a faith crisis and have been able to reconstruct something that works for them, how did you do it?
I was inactive for 15+ years & everything was relatively smooth. My wife was inactive too. Spiritually we felt empty. Our HT was a good friend &gradually we started to go to sacrament meeting. I joined the forum. The key to come back regularly was the discussion of the TR questions:
http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6117 I find that what I really believe is evolving. Son questions I would answer differently today.
I believe that God wants our belief system to evolve.
Quote:How can you StayLDS and feel good about it?
On this site, we exchange our thoughts & ideas without fear of being criticised, ignored or judged.Quote:Am I ever going to find a way to make this work for me? Or maybe I just need to fade away?
It depends on how much you want to invest, discovering yourself & what you really belief in.Fading away is a choice too. For me, my goal was to resolve my FC in a way that I could answer before God & feel comfortable about my answers.
My core beliefs are:
– This life was meant to be hard.
– Clear answers sometimes come over time. (JC & JS didn’t know everything they were going to go through in a single moment in time.)
– Don’t take #stuff from anyone that chooses to judge me.
– Don’t use the standard answers to gospel doctrine. Shake things up in a diplomatic way. Ask lots of questions. Make people think differently.
– Make & use friends within the church who are like minded & keep my thoughts & ideas confidential. (Including this site.)
– Make & use friends outside the church who are like minded & keep my thoughts & ideas confidential.
– Keep the confidences of others.
– Do not gossip.
– Mind every opportunity to laugh out loud.
– Don’t take this life too seriously. It is meant to be a training experience for everybody including the leadership of this church.
– We make mistakes, learn from them & move on.
– That’s enough for now.
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