The Secret About God

1) “Penetrate” depression – yes, for most people, since most people don’t deal with severe, constant depression; “solve” – no, for most people with what would be termed moderate-severe cases. However, I would say that the “Gospel” (the grace of the Atonement) contains elements that can provide comfort and hope to those with mortal issues of various kinds, including depression. Much of it lies in each person’s expectations and interpretations.

God bless you as you walk your difficult path.

2) Mental illnesses screw with lots of things, including emotions, happiness, joy, etc. that generally are classified as fruits of the Spirit. My schizophrenic mother was incredibly “spiritual” when her meds were working; she was frighteningly different when they weren’t. Which state was her natural one? Maybe both are. We (my family) tend to see her medicated state as her natural spiritual state and her unmediated one as her her natural physical state. We tend to see the disconnect as part of the crapshoot of mortal life, not as indicative of God’s inability or lack of desire – but that is due to our view of our theology.

I see a wonderful spirit in your comments, clothed in a difficult physical form. Do what you can to figure out how to lessen the difficulty, even if it never disappears.

3) I think your definition of faith is the correct one – and I think it is consistent with the Gospel within Mormon theology, even though too many members define it differently and, in my opinion, incorrectly.

Stick to your definition.

4) Yes, people tend to believe because they either have a believing orientation or because they want to believe – or both. There is nothing wrong with that, in and of itself.

5) What do you do? Continue to refine your beliefs and faith in whatever way helps and makes sense the most. Hang in there. Continue to seek help, of all kinds. Know you are loved.

3) I think your definition of faith is the correct one – and I think it is consistent with the Gospel within Mormon theology, even though too many members define it differently and, in my opinion, incorrectly.

Stick to your definition.

Curt, what definition are you referring to?

4) Yes, people tend to believe because they either have a believing orientation or because they want to believe – or both. There is nothing wrong with that, in and of itself.

So, how do people here determine what is true?

5) What do you do? Continue to refine your beliefs and faith in whatever way helps and makes sense the most. Hang in there. Continue to seek help, of all kinds. Know you are loved.

Thanks, Curt. I do feel loved when I come here.

So, how do people here determine what is true?

Bro. Givens seems to be saying that there is neither conclusive evidence to believe nor conclusive evidence to disbelieve. some people are just wired to believe. Others are more wired to disbelieve and that is perfectly ok and natural for them. Some of us could actually go either way. I find it impressive if people try to determine what to believe based upon what is most ethical (the greatest good for the largest number of people).

If we will never (in this life) know for sure what is objectively true then what we choose to believe becomes a reflection of ourselves. of our innermost hopes and desires.

We get to determine what our life means for ourselves. Yes, I agree that this is a very frightening proposition but it can also be quite liberating and expansive.

May there be a road friend.

I want to choose to be kind to others and make the world a better place.

I like that choice. :thumbup:

I guess my problem is that choosing to believe or disbelieve in a god, when neither choice is more compelling, should not be the ultimate test when determining if one should be saved.

Maybe there’s power in stepping away from “who will god save?” and embracing “who will I save?” Be the god you hope for.

Also, the universe seems quite frightening if no one is caring for it.

This reminds me of the quote, “Relax, nothing is under control.”

My current belief in God rests solely on the idea that I don’t believe the universe just happened, that it doesn’t make sense to me that all of it just sprang into existence without any interaction by an advanced power (the Creator God in my view).

I don’t know that this answers your questions. I certainly do not believe in the same God that I hear about in fast and testimony meeting. Am I really faithful then? I do cling to hope in many ways – hope that is sometimes faint and fleeting and all but absent. My heart bleeds for you. May you find the peace you seek.

Thanks for your words, DJ. Are you doing okay now or are you miserable?

I am hoping there is a god and a heaven because I think it would be extremely tragic, and maybe absurd, for life to completely end at death. Also, the universe seems quite frightening if no one is caring for it.

OK is probably a good way to put it. I’m not miserable, mostly. I have times where I am more hopeful than others, I’m currently in a less hopeful swing due to some recent events. I should note that I do have situational depression, and that does of course affect how hopeful or how hopeless I am at times.

I also hope there is a God, and I believe there is. Beyond that, I’m not all that sure of anything about God. Some things you said in your OP do resonate with me.

A few things have contributed to the unraveling of my faith in God. Here are some of them…1. The Gospel Does Not Work For Me…

2. The Spirit Does Not Work For Me…3. The Faith Test…This caused me to really think about why having faith is so important. Why is it the first principle of the Gospel? If there is no compelling reason to choose faith, are all non-believers really bad people? Could that really be God’s way of measuring us? It seems arbitrary to me. In my opinion, the real test should be whether someone has a desire to know the truth and acts to do good according to his or her ability… The problem here is that people can convince themselves that all sorts of things are true. People from all sorts of religions bear sincere witness that God has revealed to them the truthfulness of Catholicism, Islam, LDS, FLDS, etc. These thoughts are devastating and horrifying to me…So, what’s the point of all this? While I have lost my faith in a god, I don’t want to be an atheist. I am looking for hope. Has anyone had thoughts like mine and remained faithful to God? What can I do?

Yes, I have thought about various reasons to question the existence of God but I still believe in God in spite of all that. For me one key to maintaining faith in God was to separate the general idea of God from some of what I consider to be unrealistic expectations about God, truth, etc. set by the Church itself such as that traditionally accepted scriptures like the BoM and Bible are supposedly the revealed or inspired word of God and that praying for confirmation that the Church is true as sort of a package deal is supposedly a good way to know exactly what is true or not. I definitely don’t believe that supposed spiritual confirmations, warm fuzzy feelings, etc. are a very reliable and consistent way to know what is true or not.

I am open to the possibility of revelation or inspiration on a case by case basis but I also think it is quite common for people to claim that God supposedly thinks this or that when it is really coming from their own mind and therefore heavily influenced by their own preconceptions, cultural background, etc. (I.E. racism, sexism, etc.). At this point, I see faith as being something mostly for people that already believe or want to believe something rather than something everyone should have and if not then it’s not alright. Basically the whole mindset of, “Why should I believe that?” is fundamentally different from the mindset of, “Why not?” (taking a leap of faith) and it is easy enough to come up with reasons to doubt practically anything if that’s what you want to do. And even if you want to believe in God sometimes it isn’t really a choice and for some people it’s just not going to happen.

However, even if we assume that God exists I don’t see why he should expect people to believe very specific things about him and punish them if they don’t because it is not really clear what he expects given all the competing and often directly contradictory claims that have been made about him by different religious groups. As far as I’m concerned any opinions one way or another about God and life-after-death are nothing more than a guess so different people can look at the same evidence and reasons to believe specific claims or not and interpret it differently without necessarily meaning they are making a huge mistake, it is just what makes the most sense to them personally. So while the Church has tried to raise the stakes of believing very specific things personally I don’t buy it and think it’s not the end of the world if people guess wrong or come up with different answers in cases like this because the truth is that we don’t really know what the real answer is, it is mostly a matter of speculation.

DevilsAdvocate, thank you for your words. You make some good points. If I am going to believe in god right now, I will need to separate that belief from the scriptures. I also think it’s a bad idea to buy into package deals. Saying “If the Book of Mormon is true, then Thomas S. Monson is a true prophet” is kind of like saying “If the US Constitution is good, then everything Congress does today must be good.”

Right now I don’t know how to determine if anything of a religious nature is true. Supposedly, we can’t even tell if the devil or god is talking to us.