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  • #210834
    Anonymous
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    I am toying with ideas now that my Bishop has asked me to take on a role in improving teaching in our Ward.

    I am a proponent of measurement. That is the only way you know if you are achieving an objective. We even have LDS lore that supports it

    Quote:

    When performance is measured, performance improves. When performance is measured and reported, the rate of improvement accelerates” — Thomas S. Monson

    In business and academic settings, it’s expected that you will measure the quality of teaching and learning. But in volunteer contexts, there are probably issues of sensitivity toward people who are doing it out of goodwill, duty, or other non-paid reasons.

    a) Do you think it’s important for Wards to have measures in place to determine whether they are being effective in their teaching on Sunday?

    b) If so, how might you implement a measurement system that isn’t offensive to good-hearted volunteers?

    #312859
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    When performance is measured, performance improves. When performance is measured and reported, the rate of improvement accelerates” — Thomas S. Monson

    This quote was recently shared in my ward. I overheard one person whisper, “…because that’s when people start lying” to which another person responded, “…or when people start doing things just to avoid feeling shame.”

    For my day of rest I might appreciate retreating to a community where I feel like I’m not being constantly measured.

    I don’t have anything against measuring and being measured, it’s what people do, but all the measuring we do in the church makes it feel like an extension of the secular world of business. I don’t need more of that on my day away from the pressures.

    SilentDawning wrote:

    a) Do you think it’s important for Wards to have measures in place to determine whether they are being effective in their teaching on Sunday?

    b) If so, how might you implement a measurement system that isn’t offensive to good-hearted volunteers?

    Maybe, but make it indirect measures like average class attendance. All it would probably take is a good teacher attending a class for a few weeks to offer up constructive criticism. Make it an opt-in program. Do you want feedback, yes? no?

    Side note:

    In one ward I belonged to there was a teacher that wasn’t doing it for me. I craftily asked other people without directly asking and found that many people in the class absolutely loved that particular teacher’s style. What works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for another. It was about more than me. If I wanted a change in the instruction I was receiving I’d have to look inside to make those changes.

    #312860
    Anonymous
    Guest

    as a side note…I know Pres Monson was quoted with that a lot from Missionary Preach My Gospel and leadership training sessions…but I believe it is a well-known business adage, going back to Lord Kelvin in the 1800s who said

    Quote:

    If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.

    As an interesting part of your assignment…I wonder if people in the ward want to be taught facts like that in the teaching at church…do they want facts and new ways of thinking…or do they want repetition and affirmation of gospel messages to avoid the risk of wrong ideas or strayed teacings?? I wonder what people in your area go to church for.

    In my opinion, there are too many “corporate” approaches to church, and I am somewhat turned off by the approach. However, since I look at measures and indicators all day long at work, it does seem to be something that comes to mind quickly when I see a problem at church and want to improve it.

    I think there is a balance…I think measures can help you learn something…but they cannot be the end goal or even the priority. But I have seen that they help put some light on something that can be improved, and that can help move a leadership group in the ward in a direction, give them something to do or focus on. However, it cannot be lost in the objective of ministering to people. No one measure can measure needs for the variety of humans that congregate.

    Sting wrote:

    Men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one


    Even W. Edwards Deming, the father of quality, who was all about measuring and improving and creating quality in business wrote:

    Quote:

    Quotas are a very poor substitute for actual leadership.

    Eliminate management by objective. Eliminate management by numbers, numerical goals. Substitute leadership.


    In my mind…if you can develop good leadership around an objective, like teaching in the ward, perhaps some data and measures can help provide info…but you don’t minister by numbers. There is no substitute for charity and devotion of the heart in the work of the Lord.

    Do you think members of the ward would provide honest survey information and feedback? Questions like:

    1) On a scale of 0-10 (10 being highest), how effective are Sunday lessons for your spirituality and growth?

    2) How much do you learn during classes in church on Sunday?

    3) Are you interested in learning about more complicated topics or more simple, clear gospel truths in our ward lessons?

    4) What is the biggest thing our ward can do to improve our lessons?

    I am not sure I can see a silver bullet…one metric…that sums up “success” for teaching in your ward. It almost seems like it needs to be just some feedback on expectations and desires of those that would attend more classes if it was changed/updated.

    Whatever approach you take…I think the heart of what you can help do is infuse more spirituality in the ward, and more ministering to individuals. You can do good work, very rewarding work, with this assignment.

    #312861
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.

    (I’m actually rather proud of the fact that I once shot that back at the “when performance is measured” quote once in HC meeting.)

    #312862
    Anonymous
    Guest

    If it is unspoken and simply used by an individual to offer constructive input on an individual basis, I am fine with quality measures being used for church teachers.

    Otherwise, it will become one more program and one more burden and one more reason for members to pray they don’t get called as teachers.

    Finally, if it is shared with others, it will tend to be discussed and made into an official program. So, if you want to do this, I would suggest doing it on your own and talking only about “observations” you make as you train people – and talking only to those individuals about specific things – and using only a generic list when talking with groups of people.

    #312863
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I echo the fear of measuring. We already guilt and overuse free labor too much. No system put in will succeed. Yes the measurement might look good, but I keep reading your personal frustration with how you were treated when you were being measured. Your own personal burn out. A new system would do that for someone else.

    I am a strong believer in modeling what I hope to see. And am equally a strong believer in lavish compliments bring better success.

    I appreciate as a leader wanting a stellar organization. Whether I am a boss or a pastor. Stellar looks good to those around us. It has purpose. It also feeds ego.

    Our church is hurting right now in the department of love. We spend very little time creating a measurement or real style for love. We don’t nurture, hug, honor, or rejoice in each other enough. In my experience people grow to their best when we love them as we wish we had been loved.

    So pull a surprise. Bring flowers to a teacher. Homemade goodies with a kind note. Verbally talk about the good they do in public and private. Then watch it grow. Teach the Bishop to do the same. You may even have to lower your compliment to simple gratitude that Bro. So and So shows up every week. He maybe a lousy teacher, but he didn’t chose it. If all he does is sit in a room and read out of a manual be exceedingly generous in your public and private gratitude of his effort. As a bridge of confidence builds ask him one day what his favorite part of teaching is. Maybe he has none. If he says he hates it. Thank him for his efforts. In the long run that will change the classroom more than anything.

    We all know the lessons. We have had them for 30 years. We get them in church, at seminary, in FHE, in Firesides. We do not lack for instruction. We lack for love. It is the first and great commandment.

    #312864
    Anonymous
    Guest

    mom3 wrote:

    We all know the lessons. We have had them for 30 years. We get them in church, at seminary, in FHE, in Firesides. We do not lack for instruction. We lack for love. It is the first and great commandment.


    BINGO – and this goes for much more than just this topic.

    #312865
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This reminds me of a thread I posted a few years ago when I was trying to address the tremendous lack of commitment and frustration I felt with volunteerism in the church. With people I worked with over the years. I was recruiting volunteers in a non-profit and wanted to get ideas about possible interview questions I could use to heighten commitment and prevent the lack lustre results I was used to seeing in the church. Since we had all volunteered in the church at some point, your perspectives were valuable.

    People were overwhelmingly negative about any kind of process that was meant to heighten commitment, weed out people who would agree to accept positions, but do very little (or worse yet, quit when you need them the most). In my view, there was a strong neglect of the leaders’ interests — to not have their time wasted orienting people, getting them resources, only to find the people never had an interest in the calling in the first place.

    I eventually figured out a process that worked beautifully. StayLDS posters’ initial negativity toward expectations of any kind, and the process didn’t deter me from pressing forward, experimenting and eventually coming up with something. Something that respected the time and generosity of volunteers, while ensuring they actually performed. In other words, balancing the needs of volunteers and the needs of leaders for good use of their own time, as well as the achievement of organizational interests.

    So, in spite of the fact people don’t like measurement, I want to try to duplicate that success previously, but making some measurement suggestions. In a way that is kind but also gives local Wards and teachers much needed feedback to help us improve the Sunday experience. Remember, all of us would be beneficiaries by having more interesting and spiritually uplifting lessons — if we can only figure out how to measure and improve teaching in a way that respects the goodheartedness of our teachers, while giving us feedback for improvement.

    Could you tell me what you think of these ideas?

    1. Do a Ward-wide survey that people do online, or on paper at church, and submit anonymously to a box in the lobby. This survey would ask them what kind of class they attend during Sunday School generally (adult, youth), the extent to which they look forward to their classes, whether they come away feeling spiritually uplifted, whether they would recommend the Sunday School experience to others in their age category. Not sure about primary at this point. I’m not sure if the primary kids would be good survey takers.

    2. Encourage teachers to distribute a feedback sheet to their class if they want, for their use only, at the end of their classes. This could ask questions such as:

    a) Which part of the lesson did you find most uplifting today?

    b) Which part of the lesson (if any) was not uplifting for you?

    c) What would you recommend I start doing?

    d) What would you recommend I stop doing?

    Give them a menu of possible questions to ask people at the end of the class, who submit it all to an anonymous box in the class. Teachers keep the data and it never goes to leaders, unless teachers want to share it with them. Teachers could also share the information anonymously with leaders. But with the understanding that the information is used to drive the facilitator’s preparation for Teacher Council Meetings

    3. You could track total attendance in each class. If classes are growing, it can mean a number of things, one of which is good teaching. It can also mean shifting demographics in the Ward, too — so it’s hard to know whether a growing class is due to good teaching or not.

    4. Use observations. Ask teachers if it’s OK for Sunday School teachers to attend their classes from time to time. Ask teachers if they want feedback from these visits or not. If not, the Sunday School can still do their own assessment of how the class went after the class is over, and aggregate the data. Use that data to find themes that can be used to drive agendas at the teacher council meetings and track progress over time.

    They key is to do class-specific measurement that is shared with the teachers and leaders only if they give permission to do so. In the absence of permission, get the feedback on a global basis from the Ward, or use sources of data that are readily available through existing data collection.

    Thoughts?

    #312866
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think I like #2 the most. Giving them the choice to do it would help them not feel pressured to be measured when they’re volunteering, but give them the opportunity to get feedback if they are curious about how they are doing as a teacher.

    Something that also came to mind was an unorganized reward system. Basically, encourage the ward to let the teacher know if they especially enjoyed the lesson. Tell them how it would really help the teachers feel appreciated and it would give them a nice pat on the back for trying hard and giving especially good lessons. That’s one of the few rewards they get for their volunteer work. Some wards kind of do this already without being asked, but it may be a good reminder anyways. It would give the teacher positive feedback, and they may try to do better to get more positive feedback. Then even if they didn’t do as well, they won’t get negative feedback, but i’m sure they’ll notice the less positive feedback and may try better the next week.

    #312867
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Always Thinking wrote:

    It would give the teacher positive feedback, and they may try to do better to get more positive feedback. Then even if they didn’t do as well, they won’t get negative feedback, but i’m sure they’ll notice the less positive feedback and may try better the next week.

    That’s a great idea. One book I read on measurement said that an orchestra would judge its performance quality by the number of standing ovations they received on tour. So, this is a built-in way of getting that similar kind of measurement.

    One problem in our church is that people are somewhat programmed to give positive reinforcement even when it’s not really due. We’ve all heard “good talk” even when the talk wasn’t all the great. I never know if the feedback is sincere or not. But I still think the ideas has legs.

    I am looking for more feedback on the 4 options I gave and new options like AlwaysThinking provided. Thanks!

    #312868
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Years ago, I handed out 3×5 cards in RS. I asked everyone to write down what was their reason for attending church services that Sunday .. And other Sundays. What was the driving force that got them out of bed, out the door, and into church?

    ONE card said, “Learning more about the gospel of JC.”

    36 cards gave a far different answer. People came to church to find common ground with other people. They came to find other people they could connect with. They came to find acceptance and love.

    Our last ward had a very dynamic teacher in gospel doctrine. He is a published writer. He still teaches at the CES education week every year at BYU, and really made GD a fun class. You would’ve loved his teaching style. There was a problem .. He tried to make class interesting by bringing in LDS myths, urban legends, and gossip. He taught a class that really strayed far from LDS doctrine. Every Deseret Book publication that has ever driven you nuts due to its lack of documentation was at the core of each class. He had great attendance, but lousy information.

    My suggestion: I would love to see the Foyer Social Hour formalized. Assign an area for people to just go visit. Sometimes, people don’t need another lesson, they need people to bond with. Give them THAT. Provide snackage.

    #312869
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Bravo AP! Bravo. Love the idea.

    Snowballs chance in hell, but the idea is great.

    I already do it a bit during SS hour. Go visit the librarian, catch a few folks that skip out after SM and chat with them about their latest hobby.

    #312870
    Anonymous
    Guest

    So I talked to my husband who is currently a priesthood teacher. He was saying for him, feedback wouldn’t do much because he said as the teacher, you can usually feel when the class isn’t into your lessons. You get the awkward silences, and not much participation, people falling asleep/playing on phones, etc. So for him personally, he said feedback wouldn’t be needed. A couple things he suggested were maybe all the teachers (or anyone who has taught in the past few months) get together maybe on a Saturday afternoon or something and someone provides donuts and they all share ideas for ways that they prepare lessons, what things have worked for their classes, what things they liked that past teachers did, etc. Just to have a fun get together where they all can share their ideas and eat food. He liked that idea because he said he’d rather talk to other teachers and hear their experiences rather than hear people say things like ‘I once had a teacher who would study all week for their lessons’. He wants more realistic stories and tips from people who have recently taught.

    Another idea he didn’t quite form, was something where they could all meet during one of the three hour blocks so that they don’t have to use their time during the week to go talk about teaching. Our ward also recently started a teaching class, that’s apparently just about teaching, and it’s not every week. My husband hasn’t been to one yet because we were gone a few weeks but he wants to check it out because he likes the idea. So just a few more thoughts for you.

    #312871
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Always Thinking wrote:

    A couple things he suggested were maybe all the teachers (or anyone who has taught in the past few months) get together maybe on a Saturday afternoon or something and someone provides donuts and they all share ideas for ways that they prepare lessons, what things have worked for their classes, what things they liked that past teachers did, etc. Just to have a fun get together where they all can share their ideas and eat food.

    Exchange chicken salad recipes…

    :angel:

    #312872
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Always Thinking wrote:

    So for him personally, he said feedback wouldn’t be needed. A couple things he suggested were maybe all the teachers (or anyone who has taught in the past few months) get together maybe on a Saturday afternoon or something and someone provides donuts and they all share ideas for ways that they prepare lessons, what things have worked for their classes, what things they liked that past teachers did, etc. Just to have a fun get together where they all can share their ideas and eat food. He liked that idea because he said he’d rather talk to other teachers and hear their experiences rather than hear people say things like ‘I once had a teacher who would study all week for their lessons’. He wants more realistic stories and tips from people who have recently taught.

    Another idea he didn’t quite form, was something where they could all meet during one of the three hour blocks so that they don’t have to use their time during the week to go talk about teaching. Our ward also recently started a teaching class, that’s apparently just about teaching, and it’s not every week. My husband hasn’t been to one yet because we were gone a few weeks but he wants to check it out because he likes the idea. So just a few more thoughts for you.

    You just described the new Teaching in the Savior’s Way program, minus the donuts.

    One thing though — I am looking at measurement from the perspective of an organization that wants to improve. So that means some kind of aggregated data about all teaching in the Ward. That way you can figure out what is workign and what isn’t…

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