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July 30, 2016 at 11:59 am #210897
Anonymous
GuestThanks for adding me to the group. I have been lurking about for awhile. I have appreciated many of your comments, and the loving and reasonable ways that you have presented them. I don’t have a specific desire to leave the Church, and yet I see many of the foundations of my primitive faith under attack or disillusionment. When I take stock of the core of my testimony, it comes down to memories of a few very strong experiences, some pretty intense tribal loyalty, and the remnants of an early constructed worldview that seems ever increasingly nibbled away by new revelations from friends on one hand, personal and such as Nibley and Sorenson, and from the ever circling hosts of the anti- Mormon on the other. More and more people I respect and have known over the years are telling me how many things it’s not necessary for them to believe literally for them to have a testimony, and I just wonder how long that will be the case for me. I hope it will be forever, but I note a sizeable number of paradigm shifts in my understanding of the Gospel since Primary days and I would expect them to slow down rather than to accelerate. Sometimes I feel a cold wind blowing. So, I’m happy to be here. I’m in my 60’s, BIC to BIC parents who divorced but stayed in the faith. I was 8. Except for my dad, we then moved from a non- Mormon metropolitan area to a small Mormon town. It was a shock for me, since among other things, I remembered hearing one swear word prior to the move (and I also remember getting the soap in the mouth for repeating it at home!), but I was hearing them everywhere after the move to Deseret and not of the mild sort.
I tried to be a good boy growing up, but on reflection don’t think I was as good as I thought I was then. I participated in scouts, seminary, roadshows and dance festival, went away to BYU, came back to leave on a mission, returned after two years to jump into the block program at BYU. I married the wrong girl in the temple within a year, and just under 20 years later, things came to a head and we divorced, not amicably. After 3 years I married the love of my life, gained two children, and have had the best, though most tumultuous twenty or so years of my life since.
I recently was diagnosed with an incurable disease, have retired, and am now looking around at the shape of the cosmos from my current place in life. That’s pretty
much me in a nutshell. Happy to be here.
July 30, 2016 at 1:03 pm #313713Anonymous
GuestWelcome to the forum. It sounds like you might be a good fit and I hope we can help you as you work through things. Non-literal belief and embracing the idea of non-literal belief has been good for me, and I don’t see that I could believe much at all otherwise. Sounds like you’re already taking it slow and that you haven’t dumped all at once. Focus on what you do believe. Don’t be a stranger, I’m sure you have much to offer and I hope you find the peace you seek. July 30, 2016 at 1:16 pm #313714Anonymous
GuestWelcome and I am glad you joined and made the post. I would encourage others that are lurking to join in the conversation! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
July 30, 2016 at 4:20 pm #313715Anonymous
GuestHi, Willhewonder – I’m glad you’re here.
Quote:I recently was diagnosed with an incurable disease, have retired, and am now looking around at the shape of the cosmos from my current place in life. That’s pretty
much me in a nutshell. Happy to be here.
Happy to be here. That IS it in a nutshell. I wish I’d known how fast time was going to go. (Disease definitely focuses the mind; we’re mortal.) I wish I’d tumbled to my conclusions about the church sooner. I wish I’d opened up my mind and heart earlier in life. But I am happy to be here, and the lateness of all my growth won’t make it any less exciting and enjoyable. I hope that’s true for you, too.July 30, 2016 at 8:54 pm #313716Anonymous
GuestWelcome to the forum and posting your intro. I enjoy hearing the short background of people’s stories. I have also been through divorce so I share that in common with you.
Faith in church evolves as we go through life, I think. Like the political rhetoric I hear this time of year, some can use fear and doom and gloom to try to talk about issues and the extreme opposing views, and people at church get like that at times about leaving church, or getting divorced, or other issues.
But I have found there to be many possible options if we open our minds to them, to find right vs wrong on many paths. If we seek love and growth, not fear and obedience.
I’m happy. I’m remarried. My kids are doing great. There is no doom and gloom. Just life, filled with lots of experiences.
Glad you joined us. I look forward to learning more from your posts.
July 30, 2016 at 9:05 pm #313717Anonymous
GuestWelcome. It always is good to get to know someone who has lurked for a while. I hope we can be mutually helpful. It sounds like you up have a lot to offer.
July 31, 2016 at 1:13 am #313718Anonymous
GuestGreat to meet you! I love to hear the stories of people’s lives. Sorry about your diagnosis–I imagine that gives one perspective. We look forward to hearing your wisdom! July 31, 2016 at 6:24 am #313719Anonymous
GuestWillhewonder, thank you for your introduction & welcome. One thing you said:
Quote:…I see many of the foundations of my primitive faith under attack or disillusionment.
Can you be more specific? Maybe we can help. Or, there maybe other posts that will help. This is a great place to work things out.
Keep coming back & keep contributing to the discussions.
July 31, 2016 at 11:45 pm #313720Anonymous
GuestThe Wonder Years! Welcome to StayLDS. It sounds like you’ve got invaluable life experiences to share. I hope to hear and learn from them.
August 1, 2016 at 1:50 am #313721Anonymous
GuestWelcome to the forum! This small, wonderful group has personally been a great help to me. I’m glad you’ve decided to join. We hope you find peace with the gospel, and the happiness you’re looking for.
August 1, 2016 at 2:56 am #313722Anonymous
GuestThank you for your welcome and many kind words. I hope to be able to contribute something more than just a lot of questions. I have navigated some challenges successfully, but still have some issues with things that are disturbing and hard to accept. I want to see what you think, but don’t want to unload in one big blast – if I even could. Better I think to comment about some of the topics already posted, and then maybe do a post or two of my own. @Minyan Man,
Until I received a testimony on my own, I had a very, rudimentary faith based on believing in those I trusted. So first it was based on what my parents told me, and what I learned from those they put their trust in. Even though they divorced, they both followed strongly in the church, so I was able to mostly find agreement in their words on the church, if not on their opinions about each other. I went with my mother physically, and also on who was to blame in the divorce, and I gave her primary credence when there seemed to be a difference in church opinions. This was unfortunate in some ways, because as I later found, my father was better grounded in the church, and was not guilty of many of the charges put on him by my mom, even if he was awfully strict!
But I got off topic. I grew up with what Nibley might call a very Primary version of the Gospel. So I believed things like all the native inhabitants of the Americas when Columbus arrived here were descendants of the nephites and lamanites, and other simplistic and just plain wrong explanations like that of scripture, history & biography. Many of these “Primary” versions have not held up to new inputs from both friends and foes of the church.
One of the biggest shocks was around “Mormon Doctrine” by Bruce R. McConkie. My households believed it to be solid church doctrine. We had a first edition, so we were pretty sure the Catholic Church was the Great and Abominable. So when I brought it up later in seminary, only to have it refuted, it shook me a bit when I could only find a later edition. Sure enough, whoops!, it didn’t equate the Catholic Church with the Great and Abominable! Well, until I accepted my current belief, I still had it wrong – I believed it was still really so and that they just softened the language so the Catholics wouldn’t feel so bad.
So, my life has been a series of these paradigm shifts. So far, I have been able to assimilate them, but I haven’t even begun to tackle things like Joseph Smith and Polyandry? And when my son tells me how much of the Book of Mormon and Bible history he doesn’t have to believe and still keep his testimony and is very persuasive, I see a deep hole coming up in front of me and wonder how much you can throw out without ditching the whole boat and then might as well become a Unitarian.
Seriously, I don’t think I should ditch the boat, but you may get a sense of my unease from these few examples. I do look forward to discussing some of these and like subjects in the forum.
August 1, 2016 at 5:07 pm #313723Anonymous
GuestBy all means Will poke around the forums and use the search feature – there have been many great discussions in the past. However, don;t let that stop you from asking questions – ask away! I think we mostly enjoy sincere discussion on the topics we all struggle with, and new perspectives come and are welcome. Quote:I believed it was still really so and that they just softened the language so the Catholics wouldn’t feel so bad.
I think there are lots of “McConkieites” who would agree with this, I think I may have even heard something similar to it on these forums before. I think BRM was a good and faithful guy who just happened to get so caught up in his own dogmatism and self righteousness that he lost sight of the core of the gospel – until perhaps the very end (his last testimony is certainly very gospel centered). As a former, albeit nominal, Catholic I don’t believe them to be the great and abominable. I think that’s more of a symbolic term than anything. we recently had a discussion on that topic but I don’t have time at the moment to look for it.
Quote:And when my son tells me how much of the Book of Mormon and Bible history he doesn’t have to believe and still keep his testimony and is very persuasive, I see a deep hole coming up in front of me and wonder how much you can throw out without ditching the whole boat and then might as well become a Unitarian.
Speaking of symbolism…. My way of dealing with the above is to view it all symbolic, allegory, parable, etc. It’s not all or nothing. Moses could have parted the Red Sea but Jonah didn’t live in a fish’s belly – or vice versa. Or, neither could be literal or they both could. However, viewing them all as non-literal allows me to get the same messages without having to believe Moses actually did part the sea or the story of Jonah is true or Nephi cut off Laban’s head. It admittedly took me awhile to get there, but it works for me.
August 1, 2016 at 11:48 pm #313724Anonymous
GuestWillhewonder wrote:And when my son tells me how much of the Book of Mormon and Bible history he doesn’t have to believe and still keep his testimony and is very persuasive, I see a deep hole coming up in front of me and wonder how much you can throw out without ditching the whole boat and then might as well become a Unitarian.
I think it is good advice to go slow, peel things back like an onion one layer at a time.As I studied things, I would try to stay balanced. I would read things that were anti-mormon, and also read general conference talks and get both sides…see how both are being presented…see how both views have some things that speak to me…and try to decide what to hold on to, and what just doesn’t really matter to me.
There are many good things about the church. Try to hold on to those if you can.
I really love how people serve each other in the church. They try to practice the savior’s love. There is something to the church that helps people try to be good.
THanks for posting your thoughts as you go.
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