Sad Heaven

It seems to apply to any religion that believes in Heaven and Hell, not just mormons. Some will not make the cut. Our Father in Heaven weeps. I think mormons in many ways have a more compassionate approach, and the doctrine of baptism and temple work after this life provides more hope of greater reuinions and less “cut off” by this world alone.

Dante envisioned that non-believers and heretics were entombed in the 6th circle of hell ,  leaving their loved ones in paradise to assumedly mourn their absence forever. And mainstream believers of just about every stripe still worry about Sad Heaven today.

I do think Mormons heaven is less sad than others’.

Opposition in all things means there will be sadness. How we manage our relationships if some family can’t go in the temple, or any kind of scenario where sadness enters…it is how we deal with it and how we handle it with our loved ones that is what forges our bonds, or divides us. We must practice compassion and love.

Not all sadness can be eliminated.

Not all divisions can be avoided.

I don’t think the “sad heaven” is a uniquely mormon thing.

So “Sad Heaven” is just like this life except the separations are enforced so the people that make it to heaven don’t ever get to nag their loved ones about everything they should have done to make the cut. Sounds like hell but I’m not sure for who.

It’s silly to ruin a relationship now because we think our relationship might be at risk some time in the future. If relationships are one of the few things that carry over to the next life the only reason a relationship wouldn’t exist in the eternities is because we don’t want that relationship now. After all, today is a part of eternity.

Sometimes our suffering is entirely the product of our imaginations. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got some suffering to do. :angel:

I seem to be trailing behind DJ today and posting, “Yeah – what he said”

This just reminded me of Robert Kirby’s comment about when figured out he wasn’t celestial material and found he was OK with just being telestial.

Right then I realized the beauty of the three degrees of glory. I didn’t have to be church-approved valiant. I just had to be comfortable with myself and where I’m going.

Once you admit your telestial nature, things get so much easier. It’s almost impossible to feel guilty about not measuring up to someone else’s expectation when you no longer have to bother.

For example, people who want to go to the celestial kingdom have to stay for Sunday school. Telestial spirits can go home and eat leftover pizza.

Celestial spirits have to accept church callings no matter how onerous. Not telestial spirits. We can say (and I have), “No, not no, but hell no I’m not teaching Primary.”

Celestial spirits have to concern themselves with having a spouse and kids for eternity. After we’re dead, telestial spirits are free to stay out as late as we want. And we don’t have to get up and go to work.

Telestial spirits cannot be threatened or coerced into certain behavior because — and this is an important point — we’re already fine with what we got coming to us.

But the coolest point of being comfortable with your telestialism is the part where you start doing good things because you want to instead of having to. It’s so liberating that it’s almost…well, heaven.

It is all funny, then he pulls it out with the last line!

Personally, I am not a fan of the SLT. I have not read a single article from the SLT which I felt was uplifting or inspiring.

I believe strongly that Heaven is not at the mercy of hell. The old that must be left behind, will be replaced by something far more beautiful and grand… and all that was lost will be forgotten. There will be no more sorrow, no more pain, no more sadness. All that is wrong and unfair in this life can be made up through the Atonement of Christ.

I also believe that God watches over each one of His children in this life, as if they were His only one. There is no judgement we can make on the eternal destiny of any of His children; He will provide every opportunity and experience necessary for our salvation.

It seems to apply to any religion that believes in Heaven and Hell, not just mormons. Some will not make the cut. Our Father in Heaven weeps. I think mormons in many ways have a more compassionate approach, and the doctrine of baptism and temple work after this life provides more hope of greater reuinions and less “cut off” by this world alone. I do think Mormons heaven is less sad than others’. I don’t think the “sad heaven” is a uniquely mormon thing.

Except that Protestantism (especially the more conservative evangelical denominations) teaches pretty clearly that non-Christians (including Catholics and Mormons) will be consigned to Hell, regardless of their personalities and mortal goodness. That is nit-picking, in a way, since one could argue that anything lower than the Celestial Kingdom is Hell in a way, but we truly aren’t that different than others when it comes to the idea expressed in the linked article.

Maybe in theory but in practice I think one of the main reasons the idea of heaven and hell is so popular to begin with is simply because many people like to think that they and most of the people they care about (and their pets) are all going to heaven whereas hell is typically reserved (in their minds) for the truly bad such as murderers, rapists, etc. so they can get their just due. So the LDS teachings mostly complicate things compared to this basic comforting view. For example, being good or at least not unusually bad is not good enough in the LDS Church because we have such a strict and well-defined checklist of what supposedly makes people worthy or not (the WoW, tithing, chastity, temple marriage, testimony, etc).

Because of this, instead of letting God be the judge (if anyone ever will be) Mormons will typically keep score on others including members of their own family in a rather judgmental way if they don’t do everything they are expected to. So we end up with Church members feeling bad and thinking they have failed as parents simply because some of their children fell away from the Church, seriously considering divorce simply because their spouse doesn’t believe the same exact thing as them anymore, etc. That’s what’s really sad about all this, we basically have people suffering and treating each other poorly in real life over what could be based entirely on imagination for all we really know.

Except that Protestantism (especially the more conservative evangelical denominations) teaches pretty clearly that non-Christians (including Catholics and Mormons) will be consigned to Hell, regardless of their personalities and mortal goodness. That is nit-picking, in a way, since one could argue that anything lower than the Celestial Kingdom is Hell in a way, but we truly aren’t that different than others when it comes to the idea expressed in the linked article.

That’s exactly what I meant about the clarity in some other churches, Curt. To Catholics, if I were not baptized Catholic (fortunately I was ) I would go to hell. Plain and simple, no ifs, ands or buts. Likewise to some Protestants the fact that I am Mormon or Catholic consigns me to hell. Again no wiggle room. Islam is the same – hell is for those who are not Muslim. In each of those examples there are others who will go to hell, of course – murderers, rapists, and the like, but there again it’s cut and dried.

You’re right that in some ways, especially considering LDS theology of hell being a state of mind or being in that we could have done better, we are very much like our Abrahamic brothers and sisters. But that very same theology does put a different twist and allows a different point of view as well, and I think that different point of view is what the author is referencing – and that point of view leads to judgementalism and sorrow for people who don’t really need our pity or worry.

This month’s First Presidency Message (in the Ensign and on LDS.org) contains a quote related to all this from Pres. Eyring (and I only know this because we read the article together in priesthood yesterday 🙄 ):

A prophet of God once offered me counsel that gives me peace. I was worried that the choices of others might make it impossible for our family to be together forever. He said, “You are worrying about the wrong problem. You just live worthy of the celestial kingdom, and the family arrangements will be more wonderful than you can imagine.”

To all of those whose personal experience or whose marriage and children—or absence thereof—cast a shadow over their hopes, I offer my witness: Heavenly Father knows and loves you as His spirit child. While you were with Him and His Beloved Son before this life, They placed in your heart the hope you have of eternal life. With the power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ working and with the Holy Spirit guiding, you can feel now and will feel in the world to come the family love your Father and His Beloved Son want so much for you to receive.

I testify that as you live worthy of the celestial kingdom, the prophetic promise that “family arrangements will be more wonderful than you can imagine” will be yours.

There is a message of mercy and grace in Pres.Eyring’s words. I wish he had said which prophet told him that.

“Blue Flower” in the comments section says s/he has been pretty much written off by family after leaving the church, and then this:

In retrospect, I believe all of our relationships were doomed right from the start because of the Mormon intrusion. We would never be able to bond completely to one another because Mormonism was the middle man. It’s always been this way, therefore I’m relatively at peace with stifling my disappointments about familial relationships. But every now and again… birthdays, holidays, or reading an op-ed that zeroes right in on this issue… I get incredibly depressed and sad about how crippled my family was made by the Mormon religion. Parents couldn’t unconditionally love children because what if, what if. They had to raise kids with care, but not with love. Children then don’t learn how to love or be loved. Siblings can’t see the benefits of bonding as friends for life. Families can be together forever… IF. That IF paralyzes families from even being interested in being together forever. We were so crippled by Mormonism. Sometimes, when I let the emotions in, it aches to live with this harm. It’s hard not to be resentful, too.

I think not a few families aren’t functional enough to overcome the number that our view of heaven and our culture can do on them. I’d put mine in that category. My dad especially didn’t know how to relate to his sons after they became inactive. He said they threw away the only good thing he had to give them. The church! And I DO blame the church for abetting that thinking. Especially “back then.” I think it’s trying to do better.