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Everyone, As all of you probably know, Shawn has been on a roller coaster for a long time – certainly as long as he has been participating here. He comments in cycles – almost always beginning with his darkest times when he is trying to get off his medication. He has mentioned clinical depression, but I am certain there also is some bi-polar disorder or manic depression involved. We offer support, try to talk him off the ledge (not just about the Church, but about life in general), etc. – until the next time he panics and comes here to unload. Instructively, he almost never comments otherwise. We are his emotional release valve.
I have come to love him and ache for him and his trials, but, as an admin, I need to make sure we all are cognizant of the nature of his recent change and are compassionate but steady in our rules for the site. He has said he is going to try to get his believing wife to leave the Church; we can’t allow him to use this site to try to do the same with others. I haven’t seen that kind of attempt yet, but we need to be aware of the possibility.
IF that becomes an issue, does someone have a closer relationship with him than mine? Is there someone who would be willing to be the point person to talk with him if he crosses lines that can’t be crossed here?
Given his situation, I don’t want to add to his burden – but, as a comparison for those of you who were here when cwald got banned for what he kept posting while drunk, I just want to make sure we are ready (but not over-reactive) if Shawn starts to go off the deep end.
I’ve had a few PM exchanges with him and think i could be the point person. I will keep my eye on him, and check here if we feel something needs to be said.
I have also tried to keep his threads balanced for lurkers, as I did on the comments he made about God being offended by the masonic symbols in the temple. We should keep doing that to not suggest we agree with his line of thinking.
I have not had any direct interaction with Shawn except on the open forums. I agree that he only seems to come when he is down, at least of late. I have also noted that he has become more negative over the past few months. However, I do feel compassion for him. I concur that he seems to want to pull his wife away from the church as well, which is an affront to my “do no harm” philosophy. I feel for his wife as well. That said I think it’s likely that we will go several weeks before hearing from him again. I don’t think he wants to hear what we’re offering at this time. If Heber wants to and can reach out if worse comes to worst, I support that. It would be great to not have to ban him. At the moment I actually think he fits better at NOM, but I also think they would encourage him in his efforts with his wife.
This may sound weird but what if we ran a thread or just added to discussions how we interact with our believing family members. I realize he isn’t a calm individual. I think his medication or lack there of adds to his darkness, etc. I am reminded of AP’s explanation of being the non-believer and how she handles it with a nuanced believing spouse. Maybe those types of comments will help others. I have never had individual conversations with him. I can’t help in that area, but I will watch anything he posts.
A thread like that isn’t a bad idea Mom. The subject comes up from time to time in other threads, but a dedicated thread might be helpful to many of us. It’s a good idea to have a thread like that. I just want to keep it balanced as how to deal with differences. Not make it sounds like we all don’t believe. In my marriage, I am the one active, getting my temple recommend renewed, hold a calling…keep trying despite an unorthodox view of my belief in the church. My wife is more literal and believes many things, and was too offended to believe all things to be active. We compliment each other.
Some need the support of staying LDS while their family is struggling with belief in the church or the specific social issues and how the church speaks out.
Some are the ones that don’t really see the church true but stay for various reasons and make it work.
Some just want to stay long enough to not rock the boat at home.
Shawn, for a while was so zealous and a literal believer he offended people with his personality by saying there is no other way to look at it than a literal belief. Then…as time went on and it sunk in, he swung the other way because he can’t believe the church anymore and feels compelled to tell others.
As Ray was saying, Shawn’s issues have always been seeking support for his personal issues, and mormonism just happened to be woven in to his issues because of his life. But his issues are not rooted in faith, really. That is how I see it. I suspect his wife and bishop see that also. Take away the church faith crisis…he would have another crisis he would be dealing with.
I’m not opposed to a thread on dealing with differences in family, as long as we don’t look like this site is for non-believers trying to nuance it, if you get my point. And we keep in mind Shawn’s need for support in what it is. We can still support him…but…only so much and it is hard for me to see his specific situation is applicable to others’ faith journey much. Anything we would discuss in that kind of thread would not likely reach Shawn.
IDK. Maybe I misread how to look at his situation. But those are my views.
I think I get your point Heber and I don’t want to set a baseline thread or verbiage that says Spouse/Family member A must do or be. Maybe it doesn’t even need to be a thread, just places where we can present how we speak, work, respect our more believing family members. Whether that is spouses, kids, parents. One of the things I think StayLDS offers is a way to manage life’s disappointments with grace, gentleness, maturity. I see those as important skills especially for adults. In my life experience the FaithMess/Transition has been the most devastating, soul crushing thing I have ever experienced. For me I was the believing spouse and am still the attending participating spouse. My husband is working so hard to let me have my own experience but some days his heart can’t handle the pain that my participation causes for him. It’s taken us a decade of roller coasting to work on this. We haven’t been able to be each others support. I can’t go to my family. They are so TBM (and yes they have nuances) that talking to them or trying to share anything would cause cataclysmic pain. I really have no gripe with my family. I don’t wish to throw a grenade that will only destroy, not build.
Being able to talk on StayLDS really helped me. However, I think we lack in the “how to care or interact with others who believe department”. We say go slow. We work to help the newly crumbling member. Is there a way we can shine some light on how we handle personal interactions, without it being a lecture or one size fits all deal? If our stories, especially successful ones, leak out over time it may help. We can’t fix Shawn or Cwald, but maybe we can enlighten others and give them ideas or responses to build with.
It also may just be my own pipe dream.
well said, and I agree mom3. Heber – Quote:well said, and I agree mom3.
Especially on the
Quote:It also may just be my own pipe dream.
:think: 
FYI – I was tough on Shawn and I am not taking it down. Not editing. Not retracting. I will accept conversation from anyone. You can even call me out if I went to far, but I want him to think. I don’t know if he can. I know he has meds, depression, faith challenges, but I can’t support a StayLDS model and let him blame his wife for her response to him. If I need to be put in time out let me know.
It was a good response mom3. It wouldn’t be helpful to him to just always get support and validation when he really should be working on his behaviors and communication skills. Perhaps the church or JS issues are the topic of the fights…but based on her comments to him and his response back…it is relationship counseling they need…not a support forum for doctrine. It is appropriate to push back on Shawn. Especially since other readers are lurking. Learning how to talk about these church issues is important.
I also think his stuff is just his situation. I don’t mind giving support when we can to everyone including him. But I haven’t seen him develop more tolerance or conjunctive faith, just staying in Stage 3 or 4 and back to Stage 3 in opposing camps. I do not know if he is capable of understanding some depths of meaning and symbolism in religion.
Anyway, good post to help keep that thread productive.
mom3 wrote:FYI – I was tough on Shawn and I am not taking it down. Not editing. Not retracting. I will accept conversation from anyone. You can even call me out if I went to far, but I want him to think. I don’t know if he can. I know he has meds, depression, faith challenges, but I can’t support a StayLDS model and let him blame his wife for her response to him.
If I need to be put in time out let me know.
I think it was a good response too. I thought about giving a similar response but I think yours was sufficient.
I have mentioned before how I badly botched early conversations with my wife who was and is TBM. There were many factors in play, and I’m much better at it now – and my approach is almost exactly the opposite of Shawn’s current approach. I do recall early that my wife was upset about the potential loss of the eternal family relationship. I believe she still has that concern, but much less so than before. I think it’s a common concern for the believing spouse or parent. Shawn says his wife has the same concern but seems to be antagonizing her. There probably needs to be some marriage therapy there. My idea of the StayLDS model does not include trying to change the way others think, especially in relation to their own faith. My wife can choose to believe whatever she wants, I only ask that she allow me the same privilege. We don’t have to discuss it, especially if our beliefs are different – but we certainly can discuss our mutual beliefs.
I disagree with what Shawn is doing with his wife and I don’t believe it wrong for any of us who do to say so.
Heber, how do you feel about approaching Shawn and asking him not to post things like his last post here? I’m mostly concerned with the lurkers in this case, but frankly would also expect to see a post like that more on NOM than on StayLDS. (I realize NOM is having some problems at the moment, and I don’t recall if Shawn posts there or not.)
I think it was an excellent response. Thank you.
DarkJedi wrote:Heber, how do you feel about approaching Shawn and asking him not to post things like his last post here?
I’m happy to if we feel it is needed beyond the responses in the thread.
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