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I went up to my Bishop yesterday at the end of sacrament meeting to talk to him. It was a weird church day where we only had sacrament, because there was a priesthood meeting at 8 in the morning, which I didn’t go to. I’d never heard of this before. Anyway, I thought this would be the perfect opportunity, because I could catch him without having to make an appointment.
I told him that I had read my scriptures and prayed about it, and I had received an answer that I needed to step away from the church. I then said that I should also probably be released from my Gospel doctrine teaching calling.
My initial plan was to then walk away, but in the moment I didn’t feel that would be right. He told me that I was not alone and that a lot of people were questioning and leaving. He said that he really liked my lessons and that people in the ward who had doubts told him how they would try to catch my lessons. I don’t know who these people are, but it was nice to hear. I told him that I only concentrated on parts of the gospel I believed in, and I shied away from anything like Joseph Smith. He told me that he would like me to continue teaching even though I didn’t believe in a lot of the church.
He was very kind, and let me know how much he appreciated my family and me. I didn’t feel any judgement from him, which was not unexpected. . . but not expected either. It was nice. I went into a little bit about my doubts (gay people being excluded among others) , and I included a huge problem I had with the 2nd counselor of the stake presidency when he told the young men to not drink beer because Joseph Smith refused alcohol for his surgery as a boy.
The whole conversation was a weird experience where I felt almost out of body. There were other people around who I knew and I couldn’t care less that they heard things I was saying. It felt like it was happening in slow motion, and when it was over, only about 10 minutes had past. The bishop had to go do some interview, and one of his counselors (who’s a friend of mine) kept coming by (from a distance) to see if he was ready.
Anyway, in the end, the bishop asked me to take some time and answer a question for him. He asked me what he and his counselors could do to make me and people like me feel more welcome at church. He said that even though in other parts of the church some people can be excluded, he wanted to make sure that everyone felt welcome in the ward.
I wanted to pose this question to you all. What do you think my bishopric could do to make us feel more welcome? Thanks for any responses.
What a wonderful conversation with your bishop. Thank you so much for sharing. The fact that he heard your words, he accepted you as you are, and decided to include you even with your doubts .. That is what I would like to see more of.
Unconditional love and acceptance goes a very long way.
First, I’m fascinated with the slow-motion experience you had. I have heard that people with sports talent see things in slow motion when they are fast action situations. I associate it with talent. Perhaps you were in some kind of spiritual flow with the Bishop at this time? To answer your question, I have a few suggestions on how Wards can make people feel welcome. This is from the perspective of someone coming out of less activity. So my comments are for welcoming that group.
a) Focus on the good they did when they were active. I had three people come up to me and thank me for everything I did when I was in our Ward, prior to leaving. I couldn’t remember half of what I had done, and to hear people thank me, and remember details about which I had forgotten was like a reawakening. It was affirmation and reminded me of the inclusiveness I once felt.
b) Let them relate to the church at their own pace. Don’t make them go faster than they want to go — meet them where they are at, and respect their beliefs — just as your Bishop respected your own beliefs. You want them to feel their inclusion in the ward is unconditional, and not based on how much they are willing to serve, if they have a TR, etcetera.
c) Don’t treat them like they are inactive. I am sure people can comment on how members treat others that makes them feel inactive, even when they are coming to church again.
d) Do things for people outside of systemized service. There was one member of our Ward that would visit me every few months even though I was not on his home teaching route. People came up to me and made a lot of conversation about things they remembered about my life and asked me how they were going now. I think taking an interest in people, outside of any obligation, project, church program means a lot.
e) Serve them without expecting them to suddenly ask for a temple recommend.
f) This sounds a bit remote, but I think it works. Work at teaching members to bring the Spirit into their meetings regularly. There are specific techniques and attitudes and skills that a person can invoke to do this. Having good quality, spiritual meetings, create this sense of unity that makes people feel welcome.
g) In our HP Group, we had people who wanted to greet people and make people feel welcome. They volunteered when I asked them for volunteers. I would consider seeing who would like to volunteer to help newcomers, people coming out of less activity, etcetera. Quite a few brethren wanted to do that. After welcoming people, I would then go to these “greeter” types and ask them if they wouldn’t mind introducing themselves to so and so who was new, came to the Ward, or perhaps hasn’t been showing much interaction or engagement lately (I wouldn’t say that, but those people would be on my radar). Then, these people would get 3 or 4 people come over, sit next to them, get to know them, and make them feel welcome.
h) Meet and greets so people can get to know each other — so they don’t just show up for church and go home.
It sounds like you have a great bishop! That’s great that you are able to have someone who is willing to listen to you and your concerns. This question is really hard for me to answer because I feel like I have a pretty good bishop, too. My problems with church come from higher up than the local ward. The ward is just doing what they are being told.
I feel sorry for bishops because they do another job without pay and I really don’t want to add to their stress. But since he sounds willing to listen to you, I wouldn’t hesitate to mention what might help you feel more welcome.
kate5 wrote:My problems with church come from higher up than the local ward.
Ditto for me.kate5 wrote:I feel sorry for bishops because they do another job without pay and I really don’t want to add to their stress.
I have been quite lucky in that the last 4 bishops I have had I feel like I could tell them I don’t believe anymore and they wouldn’t try to shame me.But the 5th one back probably would have rebuked me and tried to come around the desk to cast the devil out of me. He was a wacko (and I later learned he was molesting his grandkids – ewwww).
This is a great story. Thank you so much for sharing. We had a Gospel Doctrine lesson on Sunday that kind of got out in the weeds with people talking about how when people leave the church, they try to bring other people with them, and that they can leave the church “but they can’t leave it alone,” that they leave because they got offended. I was getting kind of concerned with the pile on going on, so I raised my hand and said that I needed to disagree with those comments, that most people–by far–who leave the church are people we never see or hear from again. We don’t know why they left, and they aren’t trying to drag anyone with them. We shouldn’t be so quick to throw stones at them, and we don’t need to be so defensive. Instead, we should care that they’ve left and do what we can to make the church a welcoming place.
It really turned the conversation around, which was great, but it’s a conversation we’ve all heard time and again at church. Why do people have to be so rotten in how they talk about absent people at church? It’s just so natural. It’s reinforced in our manuals. It’s just not Christlike or wise if we really do care about growing the church. I don’t get it. Anyway, several people were glad I said something including our SP 2nd counselor who is in our ward. I think it’s important for wards to get on top of these types of attitudes.
Thanks for sharing. It sounds like your bishop has the right spirit about him and that he’s already doing what I like to see local leaders do.
1) He listened without passing judgment.
2) He said things to make you feel like you’re still a valuable part of the community (by saying that people like the lessons you teach).
3) He asked not what you could do for the church but what the church could do for you.
I’ll echo SilentDawning. Learn to respect people’s boundaries. I’m not saying your bishop is violating any boundaries, in fact it sounds like he’s doing a good job of respecting people’s boundaries.
dtrom34 wrote:He told me that he would like me to continue teaching even though I didn’t believe in a lot of the church.
For me there’s an extremely fine line where I might be tempted to pass judgment on (or second guess) a local leader’s intentions. I’ve heard anecdotal stories where leaders don’t “let” people out of a calling even when someone has repeatedly asked (boundary violation). In this case I think your bishop genuinely views you as an asset to the ward. You can teach people that can’t be reached by others… which also means that there are people that you can’t reach. Funny how that works. Anyway, I think it was your bishop’s way of communicating the value you add to the ward. That said, I understand that sometimes in communicating that value it can create pressure where you feel obligated in some way to stick it out with the calling.
What are your thoughts about continuing on as gospel doctrine teacher? No pressure to answer the question.
hawkgrrrl wrote:…so I raised my hand and said that I needed to disagree with those comments, that most people–by far–who leave the church are people we never see or hear from again. We don’t know why they left, and they aren’t trying to drag anyone with them. We shouldn’t be so quick to throw stones at them, and we don’t need to be so defensive. Instead, we should care that they’ve left and do what we can to make the church a welcoming place.
My thoughts exactly, And often, when we visit them, we get reasons they don’t come that simply don’t make sense. I like Nibbler’s assessment of how well your Bishop did. That fact that he’s willing to let you keep teaching in spite of your doubts is amazing. It shows he’s on the growth mindset rather than the fixed personality mindset. If you think about it, active preparing of lessongs, serving others in the church can be better for sustaining the Spirit and activity than being on the sidelines for certain people.
I think your Bishop chose the better part in not outright accepting your resignation from the calling.
Thanks for sharing dtrom. Only that we all had bishops who were so understanding. Great story. Thanks for sharing. dtrom34 wrote:What do you think my bishopric could do to make us feel more welcome?
I would say the bishops should be instructed to ask what we need and how the church can help, not try to make all families fit the mold of being there to serve the church needs, but the church be there to support the family needs. Different families have different needs…bishops should take the time to get to know individuals, accept differences, and apply the love of the gospel to all as they are. I think too many times the bishops see from their perspective how the church works for them…and think it should just work that way for all families. Plug and play.…but life ain’t that easy.
Anyway…sounds like your bishop is a good guy and means well.
For me, it would be to see the bishop show up to church in jeans once in a while. To smell cigarette smoke and see tattoos a little more often on church attendees. To see fewer white shirts, and more sweat shirts. To allow people to openly discuss the issues with Joseph Smith and church history with just a “Yea, He made some big mistakes.” For people to feel free to be open about their weaknesses and imperfections. For the local leadership to realize that the church’s greatest strength is the community, not the doctrine, and to focus on that with fewer firesides and priesthood leadership training missions, shorter meetings, and more pot-lucks, linger-longers, barbeques, and talent shows. amateurparent wrote:What a wonderful conversation with your bishop.
It really was. I saw it going a completely different direction and had already tried to plan for all variables. I didn’t plan for that.
SilentDawning wrote:Perhaps you were in some kind of spiritual flow with the Bishop at this time?
Maybe, I think it might have to do with me having gone through that conversation so many times in my head. I never had to say something that I hadn’t practiced before.
SilentDawning- As always, you were very insightful in your comments. I really appreciate them. I’m going to try to focus more on the “let them relate to the church at their own pace”- as I want to take a step back indefinitely. I did tell him that I would always be available for community service projects.
kate5 wrote:My problems with church come from higher up than the local ward.
Exactly! I know he wants to make it all better for me and other members, but he can only do so much. But I really like that he is trying to improve what he has some control over- making people feel welcome.
harkgrrrl- That’s a wonderful example of speaking up. Every ward needs someone like you.
nibbler wrote:What are your thoughts about continuing on as gospel doctrine teacher? No pressure to answer the question.
Well, this won’t be the first time I’ve succumbed to pressure
🙂 . I’m tired of trying to tip toe around issues. I’m also tired of having to stand there with my mouth shut as some member forcefully bears their testimony that they know the ______________ is true, while I’m trying to teach my lesson. I feel like I’m at my breaking point. If I don’t take a break now, I may make a scene at church.Heber13- My bishop is a really good guy. I’ll share your words in my email.
Tim wrote:For me, it would be to see the bishop show up to church in jeans once in a while. To smell cigarette smoke and see tattoos a little more often on church attendees. To see fewer white shirts, and more sweat shirts. To allow people to openly discuss the issues with Joseph Smith and church history with just a “Yea, He made some big mistakes.” For people to feel free to be open about their weaknesses and imperfections. For the local leadership to realize that the church’s greatest strength is the community, not the doctrine, and to focus on that with fewer firesides and priesthood leadership training missions, shorter meetings, and more pot-lucks, linger-longers, barbeques, and talent shows.
Tim, your post reminded me of stories I heard about World War II where members contributed to the war effort by working on Sunday. In the process they would show up wearing
bib overalls. We currently live in a city with a medical school & some medical students who have to work on Sunday. They show up in blue scrubs. I love it. I’m not sure why.
Maybe because we do have lives outside of church. Emergencies happen & we need to go to the hospital sometimes on Sunday. Back in the day (1970’s), our old Bishop was a Detective & had to work
many Sunday’s. He was one of the body guards for the Chief of Police. One sunday, after Sacrament meeting, there was a big parade going by our apartment & he was in the parade with the Chief.
He saw us & said with a big laugh, What are you two doing here?
Tim wrote:local leadership to realize that the church’s greatest strength is the community, not the doctrine
Why limit it to “local” leaders?I do wonder if part of what drives that strong community is a strong barrier to entry along with some policing of the fringes so that those that are “in” can have a level of confidence others are “in the club” also. Having a nebulous and weak intruder does not get the group comrade up like having a looming powerful threat.
Tim, did you mean to post your comment in the “gung-ho” question thread? It fits perfectly there but feels out of place here.
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