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So many of you have heard about my teen Aspergers daughter and how poorly she has been treated by the local ward. She is an intern at a local biomedical engineering lab that focuses on teaching. One of the students there invited her to a Fall Fest event yesterday at the local First Baptist mega-church. She went and loved the experience. She was invited to attend church services there this morning and she is up early, getting ready, and leaving soon to make sure she can find a seat in their sanctuary that seats 12,000. (Wow).
The Relief Society General President is in town. She is speaking to all the laurels and their mothers this morning at the same time as the Baptist service. There isn’t a single YW going who my daughter has enough social connection with to even feel like she could sit by them. I resent that dynamic so much that it affects how I feel about them and their mothers who allow that dynamic to continue.
My daughter has made a definite choice this morning. I’m finding myself feeling sad about the path that has led us to this.
I’m sorry that your daughter has felt left out in her ward. Sometimes we take our members for granted. If people view your daughter as a strong, active member they may be overlooking her, making an assumption that because she’s already around that they don’t need to put in any effort to be inclusive of her.
That may be one of the reasons why we have such a poor retention rate among converts. There’s the courting phase, where we invite people to activities and dote on them; the honeymoon phase, where we’re still attentive to people’s needs and cut them some slack; and the 7 year itch phase, where some things are taken for granted and people may be blind to the fact that they’re being a little neglectful.
The silver lining is that your daughter is making friends. Maybe not friends in church but friends nonetheless. The people in your local ward? Their loss.
Sorry that things are not going well with your daughter and the ward. Glad she has some excitement about an alternative. I hope the alternative doesn’t eventually have the same result. amateurparent wrote:
I resent that dynamic so much that it affects how I feel about them and their mothers who allow that dynamic to continue.
You might have spoken to this in another post, but do you have enough of a relationship with any of these women to discuss it? I say that, but also know how the mothers/daughters scene can be – at school and church.Quote:My daughter has made a definite choice this morning. I’m finding myself feeling sad about the path that has led us to this.
I hope she has a good day. I’d love to know her impression. One of my daughters is doing some serious talking and visiting in other churches. I can’t stop it, and realize that I wouldn’t even if I could. I just keep our conversation going. It’s good for both of us.Quote:Ann wrote: “You might have spoken to this in another post, but do you have enough of a relationship with any of these women to discuss it? I say that, but also know how the mothers/daughters scene can be – at school and church.”
2 years ago, I talked to the YW leaders and the bishop. I had actually asked to be released from my own calling in YW in protest over how DD was being treated. Her then Mia Maid leader told me, “You don’t understand. I am a parent volunteer. I show up every Sunday and I teach YW then I go home. My kids have lots of activities and lots of friends. We are really busy in our lives. This is really not my problem.” That YW leader’s husband was in the bishopric.
At that point, the YW president was someone whose 2 older boys had left the church. She was focused on her younger kids staying active through social connections. At any cost or price, her children were going to be socially connected and part of the “in crowd”. If there were casualties, she really didn’t care, as long as her kids stayed connected.
As individuals, these are all good people with their own challenges in life. There is something broken on the ward dynamic level. I think it is left over from the past bishop. The ward dynamic is still somehow “off”.
Daughter needs to belong somewhere. She has that at the lab and in the D & D group she leads. She needs to find that in a church, and the LDS ward has not been kind. I guess that is what I hate. She isn’t leaving over doctrine, she is leaving over lack of kindness.
DD just got back. She enjoyed the service, the music, and the luncheon afterwards at First Baptist. She was introduced to the youth pastors who wanted to know what church she usually attended. When she said LDS, the discussion started and went on and on. They gave her a New Visitor bag of info, a T-shirt, and a pamphlet of bible quotes. She responded by giving them a “For The Strength of Youth” pamphlet. She came home quite pleased with herself and her pamphlet placement.
Maybe I need to quit worrying about her. Good ward or not, she is a good kid, loves God, loves to do acts of kindness, and she will find her own way in life. Just like the rest of us.
But please Lord, don’t let her be a Baptist.
I agree with AP that this is sad. But I will say that when people like AP’s daughter, (and myself) vote with our feet, it is a loss. Here I am, putting in scores of hours a week lately in a non-profit because the LDS members and leadership did not generate a net positive experience for me in my own ward when I was fully active. And I’m not asking for a “taking” kind of net positive — just interpersonal respect and kindness that makes you feel part of a unified group working together. When members don’t exemplify the values of our religion, it becomes “real” — and for what it is. And it makes it hard to reconcile their behavior with the message and often, demanding expectations of our church. It’s back on the church — the words of Alma who said to Corianton — “when they saw your behavior they wouldn’t believe my words”. So, shame on the people in the Ward who wouldn’t accept your daughter.
I have said before that my family participates in several different churches. The LDS church (along with the SDA and JW churches) seem to have a model where we prove to you that it is true and then you submit to do your duty. Perhaps we could call them duty or conviction churches. Some other churches (especially mega churches) seem to have a model that if you make the experience welcoming and enjoyable the people will keep coming back even if they do not believe the doctrine. Over time this doctrine can then seep like the cucumber that is slowly turning into a pickle. Perhaps we could call them experience churches. One of the issues is that as a duty or conviction church some members feel less of a need to reach out. It is the duty of the individual member meet their obligations and not to become “offended”. This puts the onus on the individual to stay connected to the church come hell or high water or risk losing their salvation.
Another issue is that we are a lay church of volunteers. It really isn’t anyone’s job to make people feel welcome and included because in the final analysis we work almost exclusively with volunteers that are busy and stressed and have almost no training.
These two issues are what I see going on in the quote you shared from the YW leader.
amateurparent wrote:“You don’t understand. I am a parent volunteer. I show up every Sunday and I teach YW then I go home. My kids have lots of activities and lots of friends. We are really busy in our lives. This is really not my problem.”
I get it. My kids loathe primary. I believe that half of the time the primary leaders are just trying to fill the time … that and drill new songs into the kids heads that will be showcased at the annual primary program.
The RSP visit teaches my wife and recounts how she has to stop what she is doing and put on a compassionate understanding tone when a sister from the ward calls her to say that she does not feel welcome in the ward. Surely it cannot be the responsibility of the RSP to fellowship every woman when she has a job, and young children, and MS (multiple sclerosis). I agree, but if not her then who? This is why I go back to it really not being anyone’s job. Everyone is just doing their best within the current system of things.
amateurparent wrote:Daughter needs to belong somewhere. She has that at the lab and in the D & D group she leads…[snip]…But please Lord, don’t let her be a Baptist.
So let me make sure that I am understanding you correctly. Your daughter hangs out with a Dungeons & Dragons group and Baptists…. and your worried about the Baptists?!?! [sarcasm]
amateurparent wrote:But please Lord, don’t let her be a Baptist.
Well, I guess you could call the Methodists to do an intervention.
Whatever her choice and her path is…love her and support her. As her parent, I think it is good to guide and give information and cheer her on as an exciting time to see her making her own choices and decisions. It is scary being a parent. You want the very best and you don’t want to see the kids make choices they will regret or that will limit their futures.
I think it is appropriate to set boundaries of things you allow in your home for them to go do . Within those boundaries…encourage them to go wild and experience it all!
More important than what religion, is if she is learning to be a good person and love and serve others, and turn to God with faith. God will lead her if she is seeking.
Quote:Train up a child in the wayhe should go: and whenhe is old,he will not depart from it.I hope it works out for her, and she has positive experiences. I would just try to stay close, and let her know you love her always, even as you may have to at times warn her about the excitement of new things vs the long term things that will bring her the most happiness…and so many other important life-long lessons.
Heber13: She is 16 and living at home. She spent a semester away living in a special dorm for young students at a very large university as a 15 year old. She struggled to stay organized, so we pulled her out and tossed her back in high school. She is a junior this year. AP calculus, AP Physics C, interns at a biomedical engineering lab and leads a group of 14 as their Dungeon Master. She was just asked to put together a rubric for teaching Linear Algebra to younger kids. She is bright .. but is still struggling to stay organized .. and really NOT the average YW of our ward. There are days I wonder if I will survive raising her. Other days, I wonder if SHE will survive my parenting.
amateurparent wrote:AP calculus, AP Physics C, interns at a biomedical engineering lab and leads a group of 14 as their Dungeon Master.
Holy smokes. What a smart child!!
Thanks for that…I couldn’t remember. But for sure…doesn’t sound like the typical YW. And it doesn’t sound like your YW program in your ward is particularly staffed to support her very well.
My daughter was shunned a bit at 16 (she is 21 now). The Young men were going around telling boys and girls to stay away from her…she was pretty much done with dealing with them, from a couple families in the ward. Luckily we had very good YW leaders who would reach out one on one and watch out for her. But for a while, my daughter checked out some other youth groups with high school friends, and I got involved with telling our bishop not to have any adult leaders interview her without me in the room, which they didn’t like…but I was protective as leaders were telling her things making it harder for her.
I actually started taking her to some other churches for experiences together…daddy-daughter times to buddhist temples, catholic mass, local christian church and an Evangelical Presbyterian church together. But also required she attend seminary and get her YW award. She seemed to think some other church youth groups were way more fun. But in time, came back to church and got married in the temple.
It’s not easy. I think you try to have faith in them and their choices, especially if they are doing amazing things in school like all those AP classes.
The thing that gets me is that she is getting up early to go to church — at the Baptist Church — all because the people there are accepting of her. It shows she has an interest in religious/spiritual things, so the foundation of testimony and activity are there. But just not in our own church due to the lack of acceptance — lack of Christlike behavior — on the part of the youth in her own Ward. We invest so much time chasing after less active people, yet her own Ward neglected her and wouldn’t accept her. It’s maddening that there is so much potential for activity yet it’s been stifled due to unkind behavior from the Mormon youth. Sort of how I felt about my own daughter being bullied in our own Ward.
Funny you post this. I haven’t been to church in approximately 1 year. But I take my family to the local “baptist” church. I don’t know if this mega church is the same but the one we go to say they are just Christian and don’t fall under baptist, which confused me because the church is baptist! I guess the Mormon church just wants me to categorize things so much where other faiths don’t need to so much. I’v found it nice because as there isn’t the mandatory commitment as Morminism, they are always looking to be welcoming of anyone whether its a new visitor or family that comes only once a month. Its like because people know they won’t see you every week they make an extra effort to include you when you are there. My friend also goes with us to church, she asked me if I enjoy it so much would I consider joining to which I laughed and said I am done with committing to a religion but if they are happy for me to attend occasionally I’ll go. Maybe your daughter feels the same way? She can enjoy the community without taking the plunge? Unfortunately I found going to the Mormon church if my hair wasn’t curled up, ironed latest instyle clothes on and my “Sunday makeup” I just didn’t fit in with the ladies my age. Whereas at the baptist church some dudes are dressed in camo! My first time parking my butt down some lady beside me smelt like smoke and my inner Mormon just wanted to turn my nose up,but thinking it further I’m like ya thats awesome she’s here in the pew! It just seems people are accepted on the fact their showing up, not so much how you look or carry yourself. I can understand why your daughter appreciates that community more. Been there in young womans and in my case it felt like a popularity beauty contest. Did not enjoy. At least that was what I went through.
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