Home Page Forums General Discussion Bible Dictionary not doctrine

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 29 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #211113
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This blew me away today. I’ve never read it before and always thought the Bible Dictionary was authoritative and could be considered doctrinal. Here is the introduction to the Bible Dictionary, emphasis added (https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd?lang=eng” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd?lang=eng):

    Quote:

    This dictionary provides a concise collection of definitions and explanations of Bible topics. It is based primarily on the biblical text, supplemented by information from the other standard works. A variety of doctrinal, cultural, and historical subjects are treated, and a short summary is included for each book of the Bible. Many of the entries draw on the work of Bible scholars and are subject to reevaluation as new research or revelation comes to light. This dictionary is provided to help your study of the scriptures and is not intended as an official statement of Church doctrine or an endorsement of the historical and cultural views set forth.

    #316356
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Oh – a minor detail.

    I remember when it was added to our scriptures. It was a big deal. Reference tool, clarifier, etc. It sure felt like doctrine or it’s close cousin. Odder still how many of us have even seen the passage you are referencing. I never did. Seminary manual is full of “See Bible Dictionary for….”

    Amazing…Now all we need is a clarification on the white shirt and skirt requirement and we are set. Oh and the white shirt and skirt don’t go together. Not fashionable.

    #316357
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I notice there is nothing in the bible dictionary about what “doctrine” is. :think:

    #316358
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Heber13 wrote:

    I notice there is nothing in the bible dictionary about what “doctrine” is. :think:


    he he he

    Now defining doctrine, canonized doctrine, canonized non-doctrine, teachings, beliefs, understandings, etc. … is something you can’t nail down. I feel it is used to give wiggle room.

    #316359
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Interesting. I’m glad you brought this up, DJ.

    I’ve never noticed or been pointed to the statement before. Yet, as I look back on it, I don’t think that even in my all-in days I would have said it was doctrine. But then, I always had a pretty narrow view of doctrine; being immutable truths of the Gospel as revealed by God. My recollection is that I thought of the BD as more “inspired scholarship”… in other words, scholarly study that was either performed by or accepted by the Church, and therefore carrying a higher rating on the correctness scale that simple secular scholarship. I’ve occasionally heard the BD quoted in talks over the years and never thought anything to be out-of-place.

    The BD isn’t perfect for sure. For example, it says Paul wrote Hebrews, which is almost certainly not the case, but at least it does acknowledge that “some have questioned whether or not it was written by Paul.” It clearly has the LDS view in mind (no surprise).

    One thing I will say: man, when the new edition of the Bible first came out in 1979 it was truly awesome. Prior to that edition, we used an off-the-shelf printing of the KJV, and it had extremely sparse cross-references, no notes, and an index/dictionary that was probably 25 pages or so. The new version of the Bible had:

    – The BD and Topical Guide. Together, this addition was, and remains, by far the best self-study tool regarding the Scriptures that the Church has published. It was important, because up until that time, the only similar work was BRM’s Mormon Doctrine. Although the BD/TG would take a long time to supplant the other work, it did eventually do so. It enabled access to the scriptures in a way not previously possible, and the TG spanned all the standard works.

    – JST – This was the first time that any of this information was made readily available to the membership. Prior to that, the best way to get that was to purchase the Holy Scriptures from the RLDS Church, and at that time, that was not something members of the Church would have considered. Determining what JS had really intended in his T was the work of Robert J. Matthews. In fact, his book “A Plainer Translation – Joseph Smith’s Translation of the Bible” is a great book for understanding this nearly forgotten undertaking by JS, which he started within just a few months of organizing the Church. This is a major reason why my own belief is that JS thought of himself as a legitimate prophet.

    – Footnotes. Brief explanations in the footnotes, such as clarifying Hebrew or Greek terms, or snippets from the JST were huge helps, remembering that before, there were zero notes.

    – Cross-references. This was really a big deal. They did a really phenomenal job with this massive project. Before this edition, an entire page of the bible might have two or three cross-references… might.

    – Chapter Headings. These were largely the work of BRM. In fact, most of the chapter headings in the NT were pulled word-for-word out of his “Doctrinal New Testament Commentary”. But that work was superior to MD, IMO, and BRM did a nice job with the chapter headings, which do give important context.

    – Much improved Maps.

    I have to applaud the Church for its effort in taking this on, and especially because the purpose was to unleash self-study.

    A couple of years later, the Church published a new version of the Triple Combination. It wasn’t nearly as impressive because it didn’t have to cover so much ground. There was (and is) a totally unnecessary index that is a less-complete version of the TG found in the Bible. In fact, it’s so unneeded, that I kind of wish the Church would come out with a new printing that had the comprehensive Topical Guide included with the TC and left the Bible with no index. That would make the Bible a lot easier to handle than it is in its current version. The new Triple Combination, though, did have much better chapter headings, cross-references, and detailed explanation of each D&C Section, so it was still a very important addition to the… canon. One note, when the TC was first published in this form in 1981, the BofM was still just the BofM. It wasn’t until late 1982 that the subtitle, “Another Testament of Jesus Christ” was added to the title page, so for a very brief time, the modern version of the TC/BofM was printed without it.

    #316360
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The Bible Dictionary contains some straight up false and/or inaccurate historical information. It’s just an imperfect reference guide.

    #316361
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Yep, it is a wonderful resource – except when it is wrong.

    In that way, at least, it is like the scriptures.

    #316362
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I dislike that the BD seems to coin the phrase “enabling power” to describe grace. In almost every church discussion of grace it gets boiled down to this enabling power – as if grace were roughly equivalent to free agency or the ability to get up in the morning.

    #316363
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I use the BD all the time. It’s a resource. I’m not usually looking for an “authoritative doctrine” source on everything.

    I usually read something or am preparing lessons and just want to know a little more about the topic. I don’t turn a blind eye to anything not “doctrinal”. Besides…I’ve come to not really know much of what doctrine is in this church…so I take it all with a grain of salt.

    For example…

    I don’t know much about Aaron, was studying about the Aaronic Priesthood in a lesson…thought I’d just check it out for more info…

    Quote:

    On Mount Sinai Moses received directions about the appointment of Aaron and his four sons, Nadab, Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar, to a priesthood that is known as the Aaronic Priesthood (Ex. 28:1–4; 29; D&C 84:18, 26–27).

    Aaron died on Mount Hor at the age of 123 (Num. 20:22–29; 33:38–39).

    Good to know. I actually didn’t remember Aaron’s sons a part of that…so…that’s a great resource help in my studies. Is it doctrine that Aaron was 123? Not sure…because “doctrine” is not really about those facts…so…again…BD not doctrine but a study reference.

    Now that I’m perusing the BD, let me look up another topic…

    Quote:

    Divorce

    Permitted under some circumstances because of the hardness of the people’s hearts, but as explained by Jesus, “from the beginning it was not so” (Matt. 19:3–12).

    …is it doctrine that those who get divorced are because of the hardness of their hearts? faithful humble people stay married?

    …nah. That’s not doctrine. Just BD stuff. That doesn’t apply to me…Movin along…

    I’m sure glad the BD isn’t doctrine in this church!

    #316364
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I also use the BD all the time. It’s usually the first thing I check when I start a new topic of study. I have used it as a reference in talks.

    That said, I am also glad it’s not doctrine. BUT I’m willing to place a large wager that almost all orthodox members see it as doctrine and unquestionably authoritative at nearly the same level (if not the same level) as canonized scripture.

    #316365
    Anonymous
    Guest

    They’ve got their loophole, in case it gets out-dated or changed.

    It’s simple and pure and perfect (except for the parts it isn’t)

    #316366
    Anonymous
    Guest

    For those looking for an alternative to the LDS BD, I have both of these and find them to be good resources:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195288750

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006078685X

    They both use the NRSV and have commentary throughout. Each may have a new version, but these are the versions I have.

    #316367
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’d say that’s obvious. But the sign of a bad talk at any given place is often when it refers to some dictionary or another.

    #316368
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Sambee, I gave some BAD talks in my youth.

    #316369
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong to define words for people. I have found that most people don’t actually know the meaning of words like “prodigal.” I actually don’t have a problem with a youth speaker saying “I looked up faith in the dictionary and the definition is….” because it shows me that they put some effort into their talk and at least attempted to understand their topic instead of just parroting their Primary teachers. I have referenced the Bible Dictionary in talks (“According tot he Bible Dictionary….”) but sometimes do so because what I am about to say expands on or even sometimes contradicts to an extent what is there. Other times I just say things like “Prodigal means wasteful” because I don’t see the need to reference (I’m not writing a college thesis when I write a talk).

    On Own Now wrote:

    For those looking for an alternative to the LDS BD, I have both of these and find them to be good resources:

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195288750

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/006078685X

    They both use the NRSV and have commentary throughout. Each may have a new version, but these are the versions I have.

    I got the Oxford Annotated Bible as a Christmas gift, and like OON I recommend it (it was on my wish list, I have used the public library’s copy before). There is a fourth edition on Amazon, I believe mine came from Barnes and Noble.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 29 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.