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https://mormonhub.com/blog/faith/defending-the-faith/two-year-old-just-debunked-ces-letter/ Essentially, if you ignore everything bad and don’t question anything, it’s all wonderful.
Sort of like if you ignore the taste and toxicity, bleach is a wonderfully refreshing beverage that will clean your teeth while you hydrate.
Sure would be nice if folks would consider how these articles sound outside the echo chamber before publishing them.
Quote:I find my two-year-old’s pattern often in those looking for the transcendent beauty of the gospel of Jesus Christ. As they struggle to find what they are looking for the only solution they can consider is to look closer and closer at the messy source, missing the beauty right behind them.
For those who don’t know, the letter to a CES Director from the title was one man’s attempts at asking questions about Church history. His questions likely came from a place of sincerity. But as answers came he demanded more and more. In the end, the granular focus on church history robbed him of the beauty of the gospel.
:wtf: Fluff is a good way to describe that article.
I have found some people love that stuff. But…”debunked” by the 2 year old? Hardly. Unless you live in the land of bubbles and unicorns and santa claus. If that is how you find happiness and fulfillment in life, buddy…well…go for it.
It does nothing for me. Surely we can be adults and discuss things, without anger and attacking and malice. Simply, as adults…there are real issues to deal with. Issues the 2 year old won’t be involved with.
Not sure a discussion with someone who wants to remain in 2 year old stage 1 thinking is worth my time, frankly.
Quote:My Two-Year Old Just Debunked the CES Letter
What an unfortunate choice for an article title. Yeah, yeah, click bait. Even so, there’s probably a better way to win back the hearts of departed friends and family.
No analogy survives under scrutiny. For instance, there actually were bubbles that could have been seen. There aren’t always answers in life. For a lot of people there isn’t always a testimony to be obtained, an angel to be seen, or a spirit to be felt.
The parent could have done something drastic, if the 2 year old’s attention is fixated on the bottle of bubble solution the parent could have taken the bottle and waved it around in the air next to the bubbles so the kid would look in that direction but they used language instead “Turn around, buddy, bubbles!” and expected a 2 year old whose attention was diverted to both hear and understand. Don’t say “You’re missing the mark buddy!” and castigate someone for not seeing what you see, be the bubble you want others to see.
Quote:For those who don’t know, the letter to a CES Director from the title was one man’s attempts at asking questions about Church history. His questions likely came from a place of sincerity. But as answers came he demanded more and more. In the end, the granular focus on church history robbed him of the beauty of the gospel.
I don’t know Jeremy Runnells’ intent or conclusions, I don’t want to put words into his mouth, but I wonder if it went down as the author describes.
I think the trap the author falls into in their conclusion is equating the gospel with the church. Just because someone has left the church, was excommunicated from the church, or questions a narrative taught by the church doesn’t mean they have lost sight of the beauty of the gospel. It may be an indication that they are shedding things that are distracting them from experiencing a clearer view of the beauty of the gospel. Granted if someone is in attack mode that’s going to be hard, but it’s a path… gotta let people have their experience.
P.S. What’s Harry, Ron, and Hermione’s opinion on the CES letter?
:angel: you better believe I’d be getting my name changed as an adultI have never liked the CES letter. Even as a faith transition-er. It was a massive download from a hurting individual. On that note I don’t disregard it. But it is a long winded rant. I wish it had been better written. More cogent. Better presented. Since I already disregard it, I don’t have a problem with someone else doing the same. Especially someone who has never had anything close to a faith crash happen.
Hours can be spent using or fighting the CES letter or hours can be used to instruct with love.
As to fluff and echo chambers – We on the other side can often be just as dismissive and echoe-y. I have plenty of stage 2/age 2 temper tantrums. Even after a decade of experience.
There is fluff on both sides: stuff like this and stuff like the CES Letter. Walking an individual way is the best way to handle competing fluff, since it allows each person to construct their own solid structure – and make alterations on a regular basis. mom3 wrote:Even as a faith transition-er. It was a massive download from a hurting individual. On that note I don’t disregard it. But it is a long winded rant. I wish it had been better written. More cogent. Better presented.
It’s a list of concerns in response to a vast body of persuasive rhetoric. I’ve seen plenty of product inquiries responding to marketing literature that weren’t too different in structure and form. The difference is that we responded to those inquiries in detail, with supporting documentation, rather than continuing to say “we welcome discussion” right up until someone asks the hard questions.
Quote:Night wrote – I’ve seen plenty of product inquiries responding to marketing literature that weren’t too different in structure and form. The difference is that we responded to those inquiries in detail, with supporting documentation, rather than continuing to say “we welcome discussion” right up until someone asks the hard questions.
I hear you. This is where religion (any religion) struggles. Every once in a while the religion can respond to a inquest of that measure. Most of the time not. It isn’t just an LDS sticking point. It happens across the board.
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