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  • #211205
    Anonymous
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    DevilsAdvocate wrote:

    Why? What exactly are the differences between porn and masturbation that make porn an automatic addiction that don’t apply equally as well to masturbation or reading romance novels for that matter?

    Romance novels are not a good example. We had someone in ARP who claimed to be addicted to them. Both lead to unrealistic expectations… and in her case she spent huge amounts of time buried in them.

    The difference is time and money. Some people spend a lot of money on it. A lot. There is also an obsessive aspect to it, and it leads you into more and more unsavory things. In the old days people could have big stands of it… now they just fill up their computer memory with hundreds of images. Thousands… and in some cases tens or hundreds of thousands.

    Cute topless pics are one thing but it can drag way down to implied incest (usually got round by saying “stepdaughter”, “stepmother”), models who look like children/are dressed up that way and worse. I’ve seen horrific stuff – I’m not going to describe it in detail. I felt physically sick the last time I saw something online – I didn’t go look for it specifically, but I ended up seeing a fist up someone’s rear. It is one of the worst things I’ve seen. I don’t know how anyone finds it erotic.

    It never starts off with this.

    A guy that goes to the same bar as me… a really nice guy otherwise, confided in me he watches women with animals occasionally. I asked him why… he says he just thinks the women are so dirty it turns him on. I seriously doubt he started off on this fare. Porn dragged him down to this level. Masturbation on its own really wouldn’t really take you there on its own.

    I remember reading the story of a porn reviewer. He commented on how quickly he bored of “ordinary” material… and within a short time was only turned on by more and more degrading material.

    Quote:

    Also, what exactly is the difference between a genuine addiction and something that people just happen to naturally like?

    For starters, I’d say, try and give it up for a month, see how it goes…

    Quote:

    why don’t we ever hear about how everyone supposedly needs to be cured of their sugar “addiction” to the point of expecting complete abstinence for everyone the way we repeatedly hear about porn in the Church?

    We do. It’s currently a big political issue in my neck of the woods. We do need tiny portions of it to survive though.

    I suppose the difference is that sugar addiction – while it has major physical tolls – doesn’t do things to social interaction, and it’s hard to spendlarge sums of money on.

    Quote:

    questionable to begin with in the case of porn/nudity whereas it makes more sense in the case of smoking, drugs, etc.

    My therapist – who is not a member – tells me that wide availability of porn is causing big social problems. I asked her a bit about this. She gets to see many young women in her work, from children to college age and beyond who are very hurt due to the consequences of it. They are being driven to body image problems not just by stick thin models, but their boyfriends’ porn viewing. Also porn is leading to earlier sexualisation, rougher intercourse (not all women like it), lack of foreplay, lack of affection, and the males are pressurizing them into doing things they have watched that they don’t want to.

    There are other factors – many girls/women have different types of nipple, hair downstairs, one breast smaller than the other etc etc. They are getting bullied for this by males who’ve watched porn where the models tend to fit into a narrow range of body types. Men and women have also come to the conclusion that being photographed is okay, but then there’s the revenge thing where it gets shared. Teenagers tend to have short relationships.

    Quote:

    The problem with this is that for many of these supposed porn “addicts” their lives are not unmanageable at all; they basically continue to go about their business more or less the same way they would if they never looked at porn/nudity

    This is not true. I was first exposed to pornography when I was only seven. I can’t go back on it. It should have never happened. It altered how I looked at women. It gave me a completely distorted view of intimacy almost a decade before I even started dating properly.

    Sexual abuse had occurred between pupils at my elementary school as well and I put the blame for that behind porn for that too.

    Two things have warped my sexuality. Spending periods of childhood in a single sex school, without any female siblings, and the great P.

    This is all without discussing the industry which is bad on many levels.

    #317481
    Anonymous
    Guest

    [Moderator note] I am not by any means a prude, but let’s be careful with the graphic details.

    #317482
    Anonymous
    Guest

    DarkJedi wrote:

    [Moderator note] I am not by any means a prude, but let’s be careful with the details.

    I have been but you did press the issue of how pornography and masturbation differ. I think people should know at lesst some of the details. If some of it feels disgusting that is because it is.

    If we think this just some pretty women taking their clothes off, it’s not. That’s where it starts. If we think it’s just “vanilla” (i.e. run of the mill acts), it’s not that either. Some of it normalizes incest. Somebody thought it would be funny to sign me up to a (snail) mailing list years ago. Being from the Netherlands, it was pretty depraved and the catalog featured videos (yes, back in the days of VHS) which pretended to be family scenarios – none of this “step” whatever… supposedly the real deal. Other equally repulsive material. I got sent these catalogs for years. Never replied to them. Eventually they must have worked out that I wouldn’t buy anything. But what if this got put in my neighbors’ mailboxes? Mail gets mixed up all the time round here. Some of them had kids at the time.

    #317483
    Anonymous
    Guest

    SamBee wrote:

    DarkJedi wrote:

    [Moderator note] I am not by any means a prude, but let’s be careful with the graphic details.

    I have been but you did press the issue. I think people should know at lesst some of the details. If some of it feels disgusting that is because it is.

    If we think this just some pretty women taking their clothes off, it’s not. If we think it’s just “vanilla” (i.e. run of the mill acts), it’s not that either.

    I’m not going to get into a pissing match. I had the option of editing or deleting the post, moving it to the moderator discussion area for input by the team, or giving a mild warning. I chose what I saw as the lesser intervention and did leave the post. The point that porn disgusts you (and others) could be made without some of the graphic details. Further posts of such graphic nature will be result in heavier intervention. This is a family oriented “PG” forum and we want to keep it that way.

    #317484
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    I think I would rather attend AA/Friends of Bill W than the church program for a variety of reasons – not the least of which is privacy and confidentiality.

    I think you are dead wrong about this as well. AA is good in some ways but not as private as you think.

    I got recommended to head to AA – I went to a few meetings. Bumped into two or three people I knew. One from political campaigning. Another I eventually recognized as being a friend of a friend. I have encountered other attendees in the street, one accosted me on my local bus, started shouting to everyone about our AA involvement, saying I wasn’t really an alkie (I think he’s right). That was the last straw for me.

    My best friend outside the church is alcoholic. Refuses to go to AA though I keep begging him. He was outed in public by a now dead bassist of a pretty well known local rock band who also went to AA. That’s why he doesn’t go.

    Our local ARP leader does AA everywhere, even the local prison. He’s a good guy and I respect him highly… but he told me about his home town’s AA. It is on a treeless small island, in a small building which is visible to all. Everyone knows who goes to that one.

    There are problems with everything. Medical programs don’t treat the social causes of addiction. They are often revolving door. AA and ARP try and deal with other matters, provide personal not just work support. And yes, I agree with the spiritual aspect. I personally think AA and Dr Bill were originally inspired by God. The godless aspect of modern life is a major cause of addictions – most of the addicts I’ve met have had some kind of existential or spiritual hole in their lives. Some won’t even acknowledge it. It’s striking…

    Now I’ve essentially outed myself but at least that is by choice.

    #317485
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dark Jedi, I am extremely upset by some of your comments. It is not a pissing match – why would you even call it that? You seem to think people cannot be addicted to porn. Or that it is normal. You belittle the problem. I have had to spell out exactly why it is a genuine issue. It alters people’s thinking and behavior and can cost them a lot of money.

    In the past on this board I have been hesitant to even spell out the p & m word. You can’t even see the irony in that you have to censor mild descriptions of this while saying it is not a problem, or that my disgust is just personal.

    I hate to say this, but your main problem in this arena is essentially you have not seemingly dealt with an addiction yourself or seen the workings of a decent variety of twelve step programs elsewhere. I believe ARP should be led by recovering addicts and if the church does not do that, they commit a major error.

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