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Were you taught that Satan can hear the words you say (and read your journal) and use that information to craft temptations more specifically to your liking? I was definitely taught this growing up, but I think it’s kind of nuts now. https://bycommonconsent.com/2017/05/10/satan-is-silent-notes-taking/ It makes a kind of sense. I have had some odd experiences that way. Yes, and I believed it until I mostly didn’t believe in a literal Satan anymore. After that, I kept stopping myself from speaking certain thoughts just in case. Then, after my faith crisis, it took a little effort (but thankfully only a little) to get past this particular neurosis. I don’t want to engage in any more self-censoring than I absolutely have to. It was a neurosis borne of a very literal belief in Mormon metaphysics. Nobody told me to self-censor: I derived it from teachings about the limits of Satan’s power. I’ve also wondered before whether “the spirits of the just… are not far from us” implied that I should avoid being naked. There are probably hundreds of neuroses like this out there, and many thousands of members who are actually afflicted by them.
Nowadays, I enjoy the feeling of being truly alone when I’m by myself, instead of seeing a cosmic battle over my eternal soul with my spiritual eyes.
Speaking of the spirits of the just, that Joseph Smith quote goes on to say that they know our thoughts. I don’t remember that being emphasized, like, ever.
First off, I’m sure Satan is all over Facebook, I mean why wouldn’t he be? Some people’s whole lives are exposed there. (Note to self: see if Satan might have account or be a lurker here.) Quote:if we believe in prayer as more than an exercise in listening to ourselves talk (or think, as the case may be), and we certainly do, then there must be something bouncing around out there, and why wouldn’t the devil have signals intelligence of his own to try and intercept these various and sundry communications for his own ends?
Fortunately I do believe prayer is mostly an exercise of listening to ourselves talk and hence I don’t do it often and don’t say much when I do. Apparently that’s good for me lest Satan learns some of my innermost thoughts and secrets. Others might be in big trouble, what with Satan taking those notes spilling their hearts out in prayer. Power of the Dark Side I suppose. On the other hand, if Satan really is taking notes and he’s been around me at all he knows what my weaknesses are anyway.
I have actually been taught – and I think this is a somewhat prevalent belief – that Satan can influence our thoughts. Isn’t there somewhere in the Book of Mormon that says something like that? I don’t believe it’s true, and it’s kind of creepy that he could IMO. Then again, I don’t believe Satan is an actual being, although I recognize others do and respect that belief as I do other things relating to our religion that I don’t believe. And I think some members (and some GAs) talk too much about Satan – sometimes more than Christ.
Reuben wrote:Speaking of the spirits of the just, that Joseph Smith quote goes on to say that they know our thoughts. I don’t remember that being emphasized, like, ever.
We were typing at the same time in our last posts, but I do hear this sort of emphasized. I don’t have time to go looking right now, but I’m sure Alma (or at least it’s in the book of Alma) says something about our thoughts being just as if we have committed the sin we’re thinking about. I suppose those thoughts could only be known to God, but I keep him pretty busy on my own and I could see why he might need angels to be silent notes taking. I’m not a fan of Alma and think he’s wrong about lots of stuff.
Reading Brother Sky’s comment on his bemusement over members believing so literally in Satan after he joined the Church reminded me of a thought I had recently. If you have nonliteral beliefs and want your children to pick them up, you’d better pass them on explicitly and often. The Church does a good enough job of teaching literal beliefs to our children that it’ll probably be an uphill battle. Also, I’m sure all our practice at speaking sheep-ese works against us in this regard. DarkJedi wrote:
I have actually been taught – and I think this is a somewhat prevalent belief – that Satan can influence our thoughts. Isn’t there somewhere in the Book of Mormon that says something like that?
I don’t remember the Book of Mormon describing the actual mechanism of temptation. It does use words like “flattereth” and “telleth” and “whispereth.”
I’ve been told the same. But it makes sense, right? How else would he do it? Angels of light? Ouija boards? Sleep paralysis episodes? We’d see right through it.
More seriously, one overall impression I get is that members believe Satan is better at enticing us to do evil than God is at enticing us to do good. Why else would we get such strenuous warnings against anti-Mormon literature? You would think that God would provide an equal and opposite temptation, as it were. But he doesn’t, with this or anything else, so we always have to be so flippin’ careful.
I definitely remember being taught that Satan can influence our thoughts and thus try to influence our actions, but that he can’t know our thoughts like God can. Thus, our thoughts are private, unless we make them known with our actions or words. I remember feeling secure in the sanctuary of my mind, and sometimes even afraid to pray personally out loud because then Satan would know what I was praying about as well as God. Silent prayer seemed a more secure method of transmitting my messages to God. Now it all seems absurd to me. Whether or not you believe in a literal God who hears and answers are prayers, there is a strong argument to be made that prayer is for us. If God really knows all our thoughts and intents, then he doesn’t need us to convey those to him. But prayer as a means of gathering our thoughts, desires, and hopes can be beneficial, even if you don’t believe that those messages are transmitted anywhere.
But the thought of an evil being or a whole host of evil beings trying to manipulate us into evil actions just seems bizarre to me now. And that’s fully recognizing that one of the greatest “tools of the devil” is to try and trick humanity into believing that he doesn’t exist. In that case, consider me fully tricked, because I personally don’t believe the devil exists, but like DJ fully respect those who do.
Reuben wrote:
More seriously, one overall impression I get is that members believe Satan is better at enticing us to do evil than God is at enticing us to do good. Why else would we get such strenuous warnings against anti-Mormon literature? You would think that God would provide an equal and opposite temptation, as it were. But he doesn’t, with this or anything else, so we always have to be so flippin’ careful.
Maybe it’s like eating food that’s good for you vs. eating food that actually tastes good. God is a salad with no dressing or anything else to help you choke it down and Satan is like a Little Debbie snack cake.
I always heard that Satan gets you through quantity, not quality. If you’re a bad person you might get assigned one or two evil spirits to pester you because you’re already won over to the dark side… which frees up extra evil spirits to tempt the good guys. Even Satan himself has to deal with budgeting limited resources.
How much market research does it take to generate a report that says, “sex, money, fame, and Little Debbie snack cakes?”
There is something very devilish and evil about Facebook – it certainly sets people on each other. nibbler wrote:
Reuben wrote:
More seriously, one overall impression I get is that members believe Satan is better at enticing us to do evil than God is at enticing us to do good. Why else would we get such strenuous warnings against anti-Mormon literature? You would think that God would provide an equal and opposite temptation, as it were. But he doesn’t, with this or anything else, so we always have to be so flippin’ careful.
Maybe it’s like eating food that’s good for you vs. eating food that actually tastes good. God is a salad with no dressing or anything else to help you choke it down and Satan is like a Little Debbie snack cake.
I always heard that Satan gets you through quantity, not quality. If you’re a bad person you might get assigned one or two evil spirits to pester you because you’re already won over to the dark side… which frees up extra evil spirits to tempt the good guys. Even Satan himself has to deal with budgeting limited resources.
How much market research does it take to generate a report that says, “sex, money, fame, and Little Debbie snack cakes?”
I have said the same thing as Reuben several times the last few months – both Satan being described as more powerful than God (We have to read the BOM every day or we will lose our testimony, but if we read one day from an anti-mormon book we can lose our testimony in a day).And as usual, Nibbler adds some nice analogy (But I am fine without the fame, but I will take the sex, money, and occasionally a Little Debbie snack cake).
Fwiw, I have never heard that Satan can read our thoughts. I’m fact, I have heard juat the opposite. “Influence” is squishy enough to be plausible.
I believe at least partly that we use the idea of Satan’s influence as an excuse for our own bad behavior or bad decisions. I don’t question that the “natural man” plays a big part in our behavior and decisions and I believe the natural man is completely distinct from Satan and any influence he may have. Old Timer wrote:
Fwiw, I have never heard that Satan can read our thoughts. I’m fact, I have heard juat the opposite.“Influence” is squishy enough to be plausible.
I’ve heard in other churches he can read the thoughts of the unsaved, but not those under grace.
As a very old being you would think he would know body language by now though.
Old Timer wrote:
Fwiw, I have never heard that Satan can read our thoughts. I’m fact, I have heard juat the opposite.
That’s what I was taught as well. God can read your thoughts, but Satan cannot. Everything else is fair game.
[img]http://www.mbird.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/doyoubelieveinthedevil.gif [/img]
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