- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I am not seeking support. Only a place to vent or share. Nearly 30 years ago my husband and I made friends with a couple about our age. We became joined at the hip. Friday night game nights at each other’s apartments. Skiing weekend getaways. First children born. When jobs transferred us to two new states, we stayed in touch. More kids joined each family. We had stair step kids. They were always first but we popped ours in between theirs. We grieved together over losses. Played sports, cheered on favorite teams, swapped recipes, took vacations, bought travel trailers for camping together. We were family. Our kids believed they were cousins.
Then Faith Crisis’ struck. Like an avalanche over a town, our once tight connection died. My husband’s crisis arrived first. We were not prepped for it. The church wasn’t prepped for it. He went over a religious waterfall in a barrel and didn’t spiritually survive. In short order we were cut off. The birthday cards and cute gifts stopped coming. Then the Christmas cards. Soon the post weekend football updates ceased to appear in our Monday Morning email box. Our last connection came from the husband, a former Bishop turned High Councilor, writing to ask if he could use my husbands story as an example of apostasy. The bolt shut the door firmly.
Today on Facebook, their entire family has a fun shot of them jumping in the air in front of a sunken ship. I know that ship. We all took our young kids there. Worst of all, they had to pass our home to get to it. And will have to pass our home again to get back. No phone calls. No drop-bye’s. Nothing. Years ago they would have done at least one of those or more. More being the truth – they would have called arranged for all of us to join them, even for just a day.
They are jubilant. They are living fulfilled Traditional LDS lives. I am happy for them. The wife came from a deeply broken home. The missionaries and the church brought hope and stability to her. The husband had it better, but his family was dissected by divorce. Being fully LDS has brought them untold peace, joy, delight and purpose. I do not wish to take that from them. I am happy that their story turned out so perfect. I just wish none of us had to lose each other in this life.
It bites.
mom3, Just want to say, we love and appreciate you here. I’m sorry you’re going through that. Tough.
mom3 wrote:
Our last connection came from the husband, a former Bishop turned High Councilor, writing to ask if he could use my husbands story as an example of apostasy. The bolt shut the door firmly.The same thing happened to me. A friend of 25 years called me and asked if he could use me an example of how letting the behavior of other people get to you can lead to apostasy. I was flabbergasted that I was placed on the Apostasy Hall of Fame rather than on his list of unconditionally loved friends. And that he thought it was a good idea to broadcast my situation to strangers. What a breach of trust.
A few months ago I called him to talk as usual (we chat once every 1 or 2 months). I mentioned my non-profit, and how the way I recruit volunteers has led to a retention rate of 80% over two years and such a fabulous “flowing unto me without compulsary means” in terms of results. I said my recruiting approach was a reaction to “the conscription model” the church uses.
I didn’t think the term “conscription model” would set him off like it did, but he really got on my case and asked me why I didn’t just leave the church entirely if I didn’t believe it all anymore. I mentioned my wife and daughter who are very active, my daughter headed for marriage in the temple, my son hanging on barely. That I was doing good in the Ward with a calling, etcetera.
He responded:
Quote:
It is great that you are doing some more things but you need to be careful about what you say about the Lord’s church . If you do not believe it is his church than you should have nothing to do with it and spend your time trying to find it if you believe it is to be found . For all the people that I have known that have been critical or have left it no one has ever come back to me that they have found the truth . I will stop here because it is too arduous for me to type out my thoughts . it is much more pleasant conversing with you .Although he left the door open to talk again, his tone had changed significantly, and he was terse. I skipped our monthly/every two months phone call and haven’t heard from him for almost four months now. Something inside of me “snapped” as it relates to our relationship. It’s not the same anymore.
The good news is that due to the church influence, my family and I have been estranged from me for years — decades, so I rarely speak with them, although one family member had an accident recently and started making an effort to reconnect again. How is this good news? The good news is that I have learned to be an island when it comes to deep, long term relationships. My friends here on StayLDS and my wife help me, as well as an ever shifting set of alliances locally out of the church, mostly musicians and co-workers listen and share their ideas. And I listen to their personal stories and give advice regularly.
The point is this — these friendships are conditional on church activity and towing the line. I’ve seen it over and over and over again. It’s not really a stellar message from the church is it? I can make an effort to reach out to people in the church, but if I don’t, they are quite happy to let the relationship die. Some are even offended that I no longer believe the same way I did in the past.
Yes, it sucks, but it’s also reality — a reality I’m glad I experienced as it DOES influence my perception of the church, and my desire to integrate with it. Their behavior makes it even more comfortable to dance to the beat of my own drum as I know they are only really committed to our relationship if I am a TBM. Go unorthodox and there is no loyalty. Really sucks, yes.
It’s really sad when that happens mom3. I’ve tried to maintain friendships with people who have left the church, but I know it is difficult for many orthodox members to maintain friendship. The church has a long history of circling the wagons, and it can be instinctual for some. It was an important protection at one time. I went to Idaho to see an old missionary bud. He asked if we could meet in a bar. I reluctantly agreed. I’m certainly no fan of drinking, and I think he asked to see if I would come. I drank my water while he had a beer. We still maintain some contact, and if I get back to Idaho I hope to see him again. I was pretty surprised when he told me his son is trans. It makes me understand him a little bit better though I still wish he hadn’t left the church. I saw a different friend at Sunstone last week who told me he had a trans son as well, and was attending all the LGBT forums to better cope.
I can also empathize a little with orthodox members who don’t want the “appearance from evil.” They’re still good people, but it can be tough to deal with when they shun former friends. I feel for you.
I’m so sorry to read this, but I am not surprised. It is a common thing in this world, and it does bite. I am grateful, however, that you recognize and are happy for their joy. That is the only attitude that is good for people in your situation, and I applaud you for it.
Sadly – My own brother has done this to his dearest friend and best man from his wedding. I do see it from both sides. I also can’t assume I wouldn’t do things different if I were in their shoes. Part of it is training, we do circle wagons, we distance for safety. I get it. I wonder if I needed the reminder to help me. Not in judgement but in understanding. I did balance myself by watching
Walking With The Enemy. It’s about a Hungarian Jew helping other Jews during the final days of the Nazi Regime. My little problems melted away. I am home. I have family. I have happy memories with dear friends. And I get a chance to see a depth in life I never understood. Thank you for hugging me with your words. Among my dearest gifts are the people here.
Good night.
Sorry, Mom. I’ll have to check out that movie. I have said this before here and I think it’s absolutely true – if you want to find out who your friends are stop going to church.
DarkJedi wrote:
I have said this before here and I think it’s absolutely true – if you want to find out who your friends are stop going to church.
Very wise statement…
I want to add that being unorthodox has its advantages — and it makes you more Christlike, if your experience is like mine. I can have a relationship with a TBM or an unorthodox person, or even an angry anti-Mormon person without batting an eyelash. I’m no longer limited by TBM judgmentalism. My own commitment crisis has seriously broadened my perspective, my empathy, and my ability to be a spiritual chameleon. At least you have that.
SilentDawning wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:
I have said this before here and I think it’s absolutely true – if you want to find out who your friends are stop going to church.
Very wise statement…
I want to add that being unorthodox has its advantages — and it makes you more Christlike, if your experience is like mine. I can have a relationship with a TBM or an unorthodox person, or even an angry anti-Mormon person without batting an eyelash. I’m no longer limited by TBM judgmentalism. My own commitment crisis has seriously broadened my perspective, my empathy, and my ability to be a spiritual chameleon. At least you have that.
I agree and also find this to be the case, SD. I am far more tolerant and compassionate to all people post faith crisis/transition. Interestingly it seems to be a power of the Dark Side. Sometimes I reflect on the old me and all I can say is:
Quote:‘Twas I, but ’tis not I. I do not shame
To tell you what I was, since my conversion
So sweetly tastes, being the thing I am.
Sparknotes translation:
Quote:That was me, but it’s not me— I’m not ashamed to tell you what I once was, since I’m so happy to have since converted.
(William Shakespeare, As You Like It, Act 4 Scene 2)
It’s really too bad that so many members make their friendship with other members dependent on faithfulness/activity in the church. Your story makes me realize that I never want to be that guy. It also makes me realize that I sort of did that to my sister and her husband when they gave me an anti book and resigned from the church. I have some repenting to do.
SD wrote – Quote:I want to add that being unorthodox has its advantages — and it makes you more Christlike, if your experience is like mine. I can have a relationship with a TBM or an unorthodox person, or even an angry anti-Mormon person without batting an eyelash. I’m no longer limited by TBM judgmentalism. My own commitment crisis has seriously broadened my perspective, my empathy, and my ability to be a spiritual chameleon. At least you have that.
In my heart I hope that I am becoming that way, too. Sometimes I think I am. I know I champion the idea. Who knows maybe this little blip was a good reminder for me to double check myself. Hurting can often be the catalyst for healing.
DJ – Thanks for the Shakespeare.
Quote:‘Twas I, but ’tis not I. I do not shame
To tell you what I was, since my conversion
So sweetly tastes, being the thing I am.
Beefster – welcome to the board.
So sorry to hear how this is hurting you – even decades later. So far I have told only about 6 people about my true level of un-belief in the church. The two hardest ones were
(a) my wife – The actual discussion was hard and I almost took her to the emergency room due to what I assume was a panic attack. Things have gotten better.
(b) my best friend from high school who has married into a family VERY well known in the church. That actually went well. He hugged me over and over and said, “that must be so hard”. He had a different faith crisis decades ago and never told me, but I still am not sure if I could describe his relationship with the church.
I am really fearing moving forward, but I can just feel that I can’t stay where I am.
Reading your heartache makes me wonder who is going to do the same to me once I am a bit more “out”. I just read a FB post of someone with the name “Hinckley” as her middle name. She is talking about how her parents were really treating her, even mildly threatening to kidnap her kids (their grandkids) and screaming at her inches from her face. I can have some sympathy for Mormons Mormoning, but there are way too many that take it too far (and they don’t seem to have the slightest clue about how they are invoking the “backfire effect”).
If it isn’t too personal, how does your husband feel about how this other family treats you and your family?
Virtual hugs.
Beefster wrote:
It’s really too bad that so many members make their friendship with other members dependent on faithfulness/activity in the church. Your story makes me realize that I never want to be that guy.It also makes me realize that I sort of did that to my sister and her husband when they gave me an anti book and resigned from the church. I have some repenting to do.
If my hunch is correct, such an apology will mean a lot to them. With faith crisis comes ostracization, loss of a community — it can be very sad…
Quote:If my hunch is correct, such an apology will mean a lot to them. With faith crisis comes ostracization, loss of a community — it can be very sad…
Beefster – Silent Dawning hit the nail on the head. Well said SD. Apologies and fresh starts go a long way.
Religion involves stories that give our life meaning and purpose. Our sense of self is built around those stories. It can be very challenging to be open and unguarded around people that threaten our sense of self. People who were once as we are but have since changed can make us very vulnerable. To understand them is to undermine the primacy of our own story.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.