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I was wondering if anyone knows the motivations of the church to provide such low cost tuition to our young adults and adults who need to upgrade their education. I heard GBH indicate they were not going to expand the university system because it is so expensive — this was in conference or in a priesthood meeting years ago. So cost is a big concern for the church, and consistent with my past dealings with them.
GBH did mention in conference that the church is a proponent of education because it “increases members’ capacity to serve in the Church”. There is also the safe haven of providing a place where members can send their children to avoid the drinking, sex and wild oats associated with secular university life.
Any more comments on why the church displays such commitment?
I can see many reasons. The biggest one is that it undoubtably improves the lives of Church members, even “if it costs the Church a fortune”. What else is the Church there for? Some less altruistic reasons include:
-Less dependence on welfare
-Higher tithing revenue
-Overseeing/controlling the teaching in higher education, to support the core messages of the Church
-The “Reciprocity Principle”. Do something nice for someone, and they will feel obligated to pay you back. GREATLY increases loyalty to the Church.
– Reinforcement of the “Prosperity Gospel”. By living the gospel, you are greatly blessed. The more “successful” a member is, while living the gospel, the more likely they’ll be to remain faithful and active in the Church.
I think it deals with the college years are the time when most people will change religiously. Quite a few youth disconnect from the church when attending colleges – not just Mormons. I live nowhere near Utah and I can say I see that most of the kids that head off to a university other than BYU/BYU-I are inactive if not even having had their names removed. So I think this and missions are an attempt at organizational self-preservation. See the leaked video’s back a while for evidence that this is a huge issue. I also think you have to look at the history of where BYU started. If you go back 100 years ago there was a really strong “us vs. the world” and a ‘respectable’ college was needed for practical purposes and probably for a bit of communal pride (“we don’t need you world, thank you very much”). I am sure a Mormon from Utah going to a school in the early 1900’s probably really felt out of place going to many colleges on one of the coasts. It is just pragmatic move at the time and the church and the local government was almost one in the same back when BYU was started.
I agree with Dande and LH. The benefit part (to the church) of the cost/benefit analysis seems phenomenal and well worth the cost. I’m not going to complain. All four of my kids have gone to BYU for cheaper than they could have gone to a state school here in the east. In my state tuition is very close to a wash (the stated tuition is less but then there are tons of fees which make it about equal). Yes there’s airfare, but I’ve found great deals by using Kayak and being patient. But something else I have realized is that campus – and off campus – housing is much more expensive here than at BYU (I can’t speak for BYU-I because I don’t know).
I figure if part or even all of my tithing is actually subsidizing their education and that of other (even rich) kids, fine. I’m paying tithing anyway so it’s not extra skin off my nose. (FWIW my nose could use a little less skin.
DarkJedi wrote:
I agree with Dande and LH. The benefit part (to the church) of the cost/benefit analysis seems phenomenal and well worth the cost.I’m not going to complain. All four of my kids have gone to BYU for cheaper than they could have gone to a state school here in the east. In my state tuition is very close to a wash (the stated tuition is less but then there are tons of fees which make it about equal). Yes there’s airfare, but I’ve found great deals by using Kayak and being patient. But something else I have realized is that campus – and off campus – housing is much more expensive here than at BYU (I can’t speak for BYU-I because I don’t know).
I figure if part or even all of my tithing is actually subsidizing their education and that of other (even rich) kids, fine. I’m paying tithing anyway so it’s not extra skin off my nose. (FWIW my nose could use a little less skin.
I have kept paying tithing while I have kids there. It is a good education for a good price. Once they have all graduated, I suspect I will probably really struggle to pay 10% on gross like I do now.The cynical answer is that it increases their earning potential, and by extension their tithing capacity. However, I think that is a bit unfair, although undoubtedly a factor. The church helps its members with a lot of things, without much in return. Contrast this with the JWs who are anti-education.
I think it also provides people with a safer educational environment. There are A LOT of drugs doing the rounds in most universities, STDs, and I’m sure some people become alcoholics at this time. BYU tries to get around this, although obviously their attitude towards sexual harassment and assault leaves something to be desired.
I am thankful for the fact that it’s there. I did have peace of mind when my daughter left a year ago knowing that there was some kind of moral code in place, most of the kids there had jumped through some hoops to get in. She was only 17 at the time, so it did help me feel at peace about it. And the cheap tuition was a godsend. Although when I add up the tithing I paid since I was 20 the tuition savings pale in comparison…
Interesting, my daughter didn’t meet her intended husband (assuming the engagement holds together) at BYU. She had a lot of dates there but nothing sparked. Tons of guys after her, but she met a guy in “the mission field”.
Anyway, I have a follow up question. BYU-P is clearly the flagship university with strong academic qualifications, high entrance requirements etcetera. BYU-I has a near open admissions policy which is probably a lower academic standard. Yet a lot of quality people get turned away from BYU-P. Why not expand BYU-I to take on only the creme of the crop like they do at BYU-P? Inclusion? Something for everybody?
One thing nobody has mentioned that I think is foundational: The leadership truly believes in the scriptural statements, “The glory of God is intelligence, or, in other words, light and truth,” and, “Seek ye learning out of the best books (including books on non-religious topics).”
We can disagree about what, exactly, is implied in that description of intelligence, but the leadership believe strongly in education because they believe in intelligence over ignorance. They believe in education without any other motivations necessary. Of course, there are ancillary benefits and reasons to support education, but everything else, in my opinion, is secondary to their fundamentals support of education as a catalyst for intelligence.
Just to be clear, BYU is not why I pay tithing, nor do I pay on gross (but that’s nobody’s business). I don’t mind that I subsidize education at BYU because I believe in education as well. Generally my kids have benefited from their educations there, even the one who struggled mightily with the culture and is inactive partly for that reason. I also don’t mind that my tithing heats and cools our building, provides the ham for the Christmas party, and pays Boy Scout fees. Not to sound like a zen master, but I pay tithing because I want to (but obviously I don’t want to pay on gross 
Quote:Anyway, I have a follow up question. BYU-P is clearly the flagship university with strong academic qualifications, high entrance requirements etcetera. BYU-I has a near open admissions policy which is probably a lower academic standard. Yet a lot of quality people get turned away from BYU-P. Why not expand BYU-I to take on only the creme of the crop like they do at BYU-P? Inclusion? Something for everybody?
I do think the purpose of BYU-I is similar to that of the community college. It provides a cost effective LDS based education to those who would not otherwise get one because they were not admitted to Provo for whatever reason. FWIW, I do know some very intelligent and qualified people who were not admitted to Provo and for the life of me I don’t know why not. I do recognize that the folks in Provo look at way more than grades and ACT scores. I also know kids who go to Rexburg and really like it. I have in the past made my feelings about BYU-I pretty clear, but that is just my opinion. For those outside the church and outside the Corridor BYU (Provo, Idaho or Hawaii) appears to be BYU. There are apparently some very good programs at Idaho, just like there are very good programs at our local community college (and I’m not stretching the truth there, our CC is very good).
Jumping on Ray’s bandwagon – Education has been a part of our story since Joseph Smith. The school of the Prophets was a secular learning center. They studied science, languages, history and so on. They brought in speakers, debated articles and ideas. Kirtland Temple was also an extension of that learning. It looked and performed nothing like our present temples.
Brigham Young (for all his flaws) encouraged and sent women back east after we had arrived in the valley, to get medical degree’s and other higher educations.
Early pioneers began school academies where the cross over between faith and learning were integrated. Eventually Provo built Brigham Young Academy.
President Hinckley created the Perpetual Education Fund because knowledge, in any field, raises a society.
“Enter to Learn – Go Forth to Serve” runs far beyond “Go Be Mormon”.
In our home we have done both. We have a BYU grad, and local university grad. Both educations were purposeful to the person. BYU was much cheaper.
SilentDawning wrote:
Anyway, I have a follow up question. BYU-P is clearly the flagship university with strong academic qualifications, high entrance requirements etcetera. BYU-I has a near open admissions policy which is probably a lower academic standard. Yet a lot of quality people get turned away from BYU-P. Why not expand BYU-I to take on only the creme of the crop like they do at BYU-P? Inclusion? Something for everybody?
I went to BYU-P (for cost reasons, mostly. I was paying my own way). In my opinion, you don’t necessarily get a better education at BYU-P than BYU-I. It’s a more prestigous university largely because we think it is. I’ve heard the nursing program, which is one of the most difficult programs to get into at BYU-P, is actually better at BYU-I. Some of the courses at BYU-P are tougher, with the average grade in most classes coming off at around a B/B-, and that’s from a group of students who were straight A’s through highschool. But that doesn’t mean it’s better. I actually think the average is so low, because professors “think” it should be. If everyone got As, they’re not testing hard enough. I know some people who transferred to BYU-I from BYU-P solely to get their grades up; a couple of them ended up getting accepted into BYU-P’s law school. If they had stuck at BYU-P, they probably wouldn’t have made the cut. What matters most, I feel, is the grades, more than the school you went to; and what’s more important than that, is the specific degree you earn.
If I could go back in time (and still meet my wife), I would do BYU-I over BYU-P any day.
I just heard a very interesting interview at LDS Perspectives on the history of LDS Education. In short, free public education didn’t exist in the 1800s. The LDS Church, as Mom3 mentioned, thought education was important and established schools in Kirtland, Nauvoo, and Utah. Then there was a big push by the federal government for free public education, and the church decided to get out of most schools (except Weber, Dixie, Ricks, and a few others). However, church leaders lamented the fact that there was no religious education in public schools, so seminary and institutes popped up. In other countries, the LDS Church has seen a big need for education. Pres Hinckley’s Perpetual Education Fund was an attempt to solve that problem. BYU-Idaho has taken on the large role of educating the world through the Pathway program, where students meet at Institute and have classes there. It was really fascinating to see how the LDS Church has always wanted to maintain both religious and secular education. THe LDS Church has always tried to keep costs low while maintaining religious instruction.
There was an interesting exchange about the Chicago Experiment, in which the LDS Church experimented with theological degrees for seminary teachers, but J Reuben Clarke thought the religious education was ruining testimonies, and abandoned the effort. Check out the interview with Casey Paul Griffiths at
http://www.ldsperspectives.com/2017/08/16/religious-education-mormon/ Ray hit the nail on the head. Unlike other conservative religions, which is a contrast to our credit, we really do value higher education for our people. Even for women, whether the church has realistic expectations for what you can do with a degree you’ve never used or not. gospeltangents wrote:
I just heard a very interesting interview at LDS Perspectives on the history of LDS Education. … Check out the interview with Casey Paul Griffiths athttp://www.ldsperspectives.com/2017/08/16/religious-education-mormon/
I am a podcast junkie. I had LDS perspectives on my list, but didn’t find it engaging, but I did load this one and it was interesting. It is a good 40 minute history lesson (or only 20 minutes if you listen to it at 2x on a good podcast app).SilentDawning wrote:
Interesting, my daughter didn’t meet her intended husband (assuming the engagement holds together) at BYU. She had a lot of dates there but nothing sparked. Tons of guys after her, but she met a guy in “the mission field”.
From what I gather, most BYU students graduate single. I don’t know how many exactly, but I do know it’s over half. I am in that majority.The cheap tuition at BYU was actually one of the issues my sister had. I don’t know how much or if it contributed to her eventually leaving the church, but she said something along the lines of being uncomfortable going to a university paid for, in part, by starving Africans’ tithing even though those Africans would have no hope of ever attending the university they are partly paying for. If I remember correctly, she told me this around the time she dropped out due to extreme depression issues, which would have been about 2-3 years before she left the church.
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