Have you stopped attending the temple and wearing garments, but still go?

SnowEyes:

Two years ago, I quit wearing garments but I was still attending services. When visiting out of town family, I was asked about the lack of garments. I told them that I was trying to figure out my relationship with the LDS church, but that my relationship with God was very good. That was the same response that I gave to the few members who asked me about my lack of garment lines and the small cross that I started wearing.

A few months ago, I let my extended family know that I had left the LDS church completely but that I didnt want a discussion about it. There was no drama. A few individuals waited a couple weeks and then approached me about my stance. My side of the conversation was emphatic that I didnt want to change their beliefs or talk trash about that LDS church .. So I didnt want to discuss it. I stated that I was going the direction that God was leading me. My 84 year old mother was so concerned until she realized that I wasn’t bashing the church. Then she laughed and commented that she knew of some historical details that would be hard to believe. I was stunned by her comment.

Two weeks ago, my MIL came through town for a quick visit after completing her 8th mission ( I’ve been telling people it was her ninth. I was wrong). During the visit, I told her that I had left the LDS church. She handled it graciously. She wished me well and told me that she was pleased that I made her son so happy.

My suggestion for your situation, just go slow and keep drama as low as possible.

I was wondering if anyone had decided to continue attending church, but no longer attend the temple? Has anyone who received their endowments decided that the temple ceremony and others things attached to it (polygamy, garments, new name) aren’t something they are comfortable with anymore or can believe in?

How has going to church and being around family/friends been since you decided this? Since you decided to take off your garments and not go into the temple? Have you talked to them about it, or do you just let them assume for the most part?

I no longer do either. As I reconstructed my entire religion a few years ago, I realized that wearing underclothing that didn’t fit me was something to leave behind. That I was happier without wearing garments.

I also never enjoyed going to the temple. I find it time consuming, boring, and my personality does not fit the emphasis on exactness in behavior. I already hate it when people are pointing out my mistakes in work contexts, to voluntarily put myself in the midst of such a Pharisiacal situation was something I couldn’t handle. It came to a head when I was qualified as a veil worker. At the veil and in the waiting room behind the veil I faced such as massive onslaught of well-meaning criticism/correction for the way I did things I never went back.

I don’t blame the people who were part of all that; it’s the system and the context of the ceremonies that does it.

I do wear garments when I have to wear a white shirt at church, but it’s simply to stop tongues from wagging. When the day comes that the church makes garments that fit me, I’ll consider wearing them, but in the meantime, I go for comfort and fit.

Family have accepted me in this regard, and my daughter, who is TBM accepts that I may not go through the temple when she is married. She also told me that if I get a recommend, that she wants it to be a permanent thing, not something I do just to get into the wedding in the temple.

I let my wife know I couldn’t say I was a “believer” anymore a bit over 6 months ago. She finally wanted to talk a bit more last night. We kept it civil and neither of us got overly emotional. No huge progress or “watershed moment”, but we were able to talk. I tried really hard to explain some of where I was coming from, but still stay very respectful of her beliefs and that I 100% support her and anyone else’s belief.

She asked about the temple. For the first time I told her that every single time I went to the temple it felt really odd – nothing at all akin to “feeling the spirit.” And no matter how I tried I never felt anything positive. Other than attending weddings I I think it has been once in the last 4 years – when I escorted my son several years ago.

I am going to go into the bishop (a good guy) and have a recommend discussion/interview and A BIT honest on a few items I have issues with (framing them more as “struggles” even though I would say that I have reached a conclusion at this time and no longer “struggle”). I want to do this partially to have the bishop say, “you are still ‘worthy’ even if you are not fully believing” and be able to tell my wife that.

I still wear garments to help my wife see I am not an angry ex-mo. If I look forward 10 years from now, I don’t expect I will still be wearing them.

I do still attend and I even just took a calling in the stake. I will see how that goes.

Other than my wife I don’t say much about any of this to any of my family/friends.

My advice is do (or at least try) what you feel and own it. It feels a bit like you are asking us for permission. That is OK and I have done that here quite a bit. But YOU make decisions for YOU. I really only look at me and my relationship to God as important. What the church does or does not think of me and my actions are much less important to me.

Lots of good advice already. I would especially mirror LH’s advice to be YOU.

My advice is do (or at least try) what you feel and own it. It feels a bit like you are asking us for permission. That is OK and I have done that here quite a bit. But YOU make decisions for YOU. I really only look at me and my relationship to God as important. What the church does or does not think of me and my actions are much less important to me.

I still attend church every week, but haven’t been to the temple in 8-9 years, haven’t had a recommend in about 6-7 years, and haven’t worn garments for 3-4 years. The temple has been a problem for me since the very first time I went. After years of attending, sometimes 3-4 times per week, the uncomfortable feeling I always had at the temple never improved. I also felt awkward there, even when I would fast and pray to feel the spirit before I went. Eventually, I just got tired of trying to force a spiritual experience, and let go of the temple. It was a weight off my shoulders, and I have never missed it. Not renewing my recommend felt a bit strange at first, as if I was giving up my ‘club card.’ But, life went on and nothing really changed. I continued to pray, read scriptures, attend church, hold a calling, etc. Getting rid of garments felt like a more significant step, simply because it required me to go out and buy new underwear, and I noticed the difference in feel all day at first (in a good way). It also felt like a burden was lifted, because I had been feeling like a hypocrite wearing garments when I didn’t believe any of the temple-related doctrines. I now enjoy not wearing garments, and kind of feel sorry for my wife when I see her tugging on her garment legs when they start riding up.

However, I still completely support her in everything church-related. Yesterday, they announced this week ward temple night, and I asked her if she’s going to go. I now pay 10% toward fast offerings, instead of paying tithing; but, my wife pays tithing and I support that. I now only partake of the sacrament when I’m ‘feeling it,’ which might be once a month or once in six months, but it feels more purposeful when I do take it.

As far as talking to family about it, I’ve had one-on-one discussions with my brother, sisters, parents, and in-laws, so they’re all completely aware of where I am with the church. In the beginning, I think some of them were a little surprised, but I focused on what I still DO believe, and not on what I don’t believe, and I think that softened the blow. None of them have ever said anything about me not wearing garments anymore, and nobody has asked whether I still have a recommend. They’ve seen that I’m still attending church, still being a good father, still living my life in the same way I always did before; so they have all been very accepting about everything.

I am going to go into the bishop (a good guy) and have a recommend discussion/interview and A BIT honest on a few items I have issues with (framing them more as “struggles” even though I would say that I have reached a conclusion at this time and no longer “struggle”). I want to do this partially to have the bishop say, “you are still ‘worthy’ even if you are not fully believing” and be able to tell my wife that.

I have taken LH’s approach to this. I’m on my fifth bishop (in three different wards) since my FC really ignited. I’ve talked about all five of those bishops about my beliefs, doubts, and questions in details. All five of them had a different response, but they have all been positive experiences. I’ve had one-on-one conversations with my current EQP, the high councilor assigned to our ward, a stake presidency counselor, two different ward mission leaders, multiple sets of missionaries who have visited our home, and many ward members. I’ve talked openly about my unorthodox beliefs in Elders Quorum. I’ve talked in sacrament meeting about the fact that I don’t have the kind of testimony where I can openly say, “I know…..,” but that there are some things that I can say, “I believe….,” and many things that I can only say, “I hope….” I attend Gospel Principles, instead of Gospel Doctrine, and even talked to the bishop about holding a temple prep class specifically for people who struggle with the temple. He thought it was a great idea, and scheduled a class for me and one other guy who had some of the same struggles, so we could openly ask questions and really get into some deep stuff in the class. Unfortunately, the teacher of the class ended up inviting a newly baptized couple to join the class as well, so we weren’t able to get into the stuff we wanted to. So the two of us ended up just going back to Gospel Principles, but it was a good effort on the part of the bishop. Of course, everybody will have different experiences with this, but by just being open and owning exactly what I do and do not believe, I’ve only had one person who really reacted negatively to it, and that was my wife. We went through some really hard times because of it, but things have improved, and I think we’re better off now that we can both talk about it openly. Just my two cents.

As for church and family, no one has said anything to me in the past year and a half of not wearing them. I’m sure they’ve noticed by now though, especially since I recently started wearing some shorts that go halfway up my thigh.

What I noticed was my male friends when I was sitting at their house in their couch would be taking a little bit too much interest in the end of my shorts. It was actually a bit creepy, but I could see they were trying to assess if I was still wearing my garments. Creepy.

My family knows but doesn’t seem to care.

I don’t like to go to the temple and go as infrequently as possible, particularly steering clear of the endowment if I can. The initiatory is something I like much better. I’m not “unworthy,” I just don’t believe that the sexist portrayal of women is divine. Going makes me feel complicit in making women second class citizens in the church.

As for garments, I mostly wear them still, but I really dislike them the older I get; I’m getting feistier rather than more submissive. It’s quite clear that our male leaders don’t understand or care about women’s health or comfort. Garments are not very suitable for women. Any weight gain or loss is magnified by them to the point of discomfort or unwearability; they contribute to eating disorders and body dysmorphia. They bunch up under fabrics used in women’s clothing. They don’t work with periods, maternity, and they are even worse with menopause. If you go back a few hundred years, most women didn’t wear underwear, and there’s a good reason. And it’s over 100 degrees here for about half the year.

I deal with them, but the older I get the less I can deal with them every day.