Home Page › Forums › General Discussion › The Conscription Model of Church Service — Is there a better way?
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May 14, 2017 at 4:41 pm #211444
Anonymous
GuestAnyway, our Ward Mission Leader stood up and indicated who is assigned to go on splits this week today in Priesthood Meeting opening exercises. On the list was a ward leader who has, or is recovering from cancer, and who attended one meeting of the 3 hour block and went home today. He has trouble speaking — is very labored. Yet he was announced as being assigned to be on splits this week, and the missionaries should check to see if he is well enough to go (a bit of a glimmer of hope there). Then they mentioned the dozen new families that have been moved in, and how they each get a letter that indicates their new home teacher — and I think it’s without the home teacher agreeing to the letter. Continuing the conscription model that I wrote about in a previous thread where I was assigned 18 or 20 families without discussion. Then our SP stood up and said he was pleased with how we assign splits, and that yes, we are volunteers, but we are also a church of assignments.
I guess I just wanted to share this as I think most people know how I feel about this…I sense they do the assignments out of frustration with the lack of volunteerism. And perhaps they get a little more by using this salesy approach.
Is the conscription model Christlike? Is there a better way to deal with the problem of no willing volunteers on matters that are at the heart of the church’s mission (like proclaiming the gospel)?
May 14, 2017 at 6:23 pm #320979Anonymous
GuestSilentDawning wrote:
Is the conscription model Christlike? Is there a better way to deal with the problem of no willing volunteers on matters that are at the heart of the church’s mission (like proclaiming the gospel)?
Christ told disciples to leave their businesses, abandon their families without saying “goodbye”, and leave their dead unburied, in order to follow Him. It’s not recorded anywhere, where Christ asked His followers to follow Him, or to carry out church responsibilities. But on the other hand, I absolutely
HATEit, it drives me CRAZYwhen I am volunteered without my consent. Thinking of my own behaviors, it might be worth trying a “sign-up sheet” volunteer program. That way, each member can see who is doing what, and what needs to be done, without being put on the spot. It will also instill the feeling, “If you don’t do it, who else will?”. Personally, I would be a lot more likely to sign up, if I had the capacity, and wouldn’t feel angry if I did not.
May 14, 2017 at 7:12 pm #320980Anonymous
GuestFortunately another thing my ward doesn’t do. I am rebellious enough that I wouldn’t do it just because I was assigned and for no other reason. We do the sign up sheet thing, and I get it, nobody signs up. Frankly our missionaries aren’t busy enough as it is so splits are in that sense a detriment, spreading the already little work even thinner. Besides, I’d have to be really careful what I say sometimes. What was your SP doing there? Ours made it clear we were to be in our own wards unless we were out of the area – it is Mother’s Day after all. (He says the same thing about ll the holidays, including Father’s Day.)
May 14, 2017 at 10:02 pm #320981Anonymous
GuestConscription is New Teatament-like – but only in specific situations. I hate what you described – and it appears your Bishop is following your Stake President’s directions. Shame on the SP.
May 15, 2017 at 12:04 am #320982Anonymous
GuestDarkJedi wrote:
What was your SP doing there? Ours made it clear we were to be in our own wards unless we were out of the area – it is Mother’s Day after all. (He says the same thing about ll the holidays, including Father’s Day.)
He and his second counselor were there. I think they were scouting for a new Bishop. Our BP has moved his business to another state but is managing it from afar until the SP can find a replacement. Drat. I had a safe haven there and I have a small circle of people who I enjoy working with in my little assignment. There is positive regard from my current Bishop, and he is largely a good man, not bound by excessive rules and dogma.
We have a weak ward when it comes to top level leadership. Lots of of young families and people trying to just get by, some older folks, but no really strong people for the long term.
I think this was why my BP, in attempt to inspire me when we had our last round of interviews, told me he thought I could be a Bishop. Then he looked surprised (jaw dropping shocked) when I told him I’d already been approached about it twenty years earlier. At one time I really wanted to do it, but now, I can’t, for obvious reasons.
We shall see. I will say this — my experience discussing church matters here leaves me well-prepared to talk to priesthood leaders of all kinds — at least, so far, when we get a new Bishop.
Back to the conscription model…here is a better way for consideration and feedback.
First, find the people who have passion for the various tasks that need to be done. This means having an inventory of what people really enjoy doing in the church, and make sure there is alignment between their passions and the work they are asked to do in the church.
Second, I think having a very caring attitude toward people encourages participation, as people will give of their time due to the relationship they have with you. The lack of caring from my past leaders is a big reason I am on the bench now. Leaders who put people ahead of programs and cultural norms and conditional love, get more from their followers than leaders who do not.
Third, the non-profit I started, I have a number of day-of volunteers help me (10) at one point, and they were all students. A few mentioned the reason they did it was because I had helped them so much out of class time even though they weren’t in my classes. Service breeds love, and love breeds cooperation.
Fourth, I think asking people to take on bursts of service and then allowing them a break from it helps. I would be inclined to ask some members of the Ward if they wouldn’t mind going out on splits weekly, or twice a week for the next five weeks, after which you won’t ask them to do it for another X months or a year, unless they want to volunteer. Of course, the timing and frequency is matched to their life circumstances, so that was just an example. It’s the lack of light at the end of the tunnel that seems to breed cynicism and non-cooperation.
Fifth, be judicious about how much drudgery you impose on your Ward, and at times, this may mean asserting yourself with the Stake.
Sixth, be realistic about what you expect to get done in the Ward. The Ward will move as fast as the Ward will move…don’t slow it down with overzealousness and be happy with what you do have.
Last, as far as missionary work goes, I had so many innovative ideas that were shot down by our previous by-the-book Bishop that I stopped trying. Encourage innovation. I have several right now that have the potential to fill up splits nights with positive experiences, but our last Bishop wouldn’t let us do them.
I would like to know what others think of these ideas…and any new ones you might have.
May 15, 2017 at 12:54 pm #320983Anonymous
GuestThat sounds like a man made for programs problem.
DarkJedi wrote:We do the sign up sheet thing, and I get it, nobody signs up.
If no one signs up I think we should allow a program to fall by the wayside… but the program
hasto be staffed, there aren’t any volunteers, so there are a few options: 1) A member of the same 12 people club takes one for the team again.
2) Call some poor sap to round up volunteers for an assignment no one wants to do. This person can either spend an entire day each week cold calling the entire ward and hear excuse after excuse… or they can make a list, make assignments, and tell everyone “if you can’t do it on the night of your assignment you are responsible for finding a replacement.” Finding a replacement is a bigger hassle than doing whatever it is you were volunteered to do so problem solved.
DarkJedi wrote:Frankly our missionaries aren’t busy enough as it is so splits are in that sense a detriment, spreading the already little work even thinner.
Once upon a time splits were meant to maximize the amount of people that missionaries could see during prime teaching hours by getting two members to show up for splits so each missionary in the companionship could head out in different directions. Several years ago our area moved to a model where only one member is asked to show up for splits. I think the shift came as the result of the missionaries not being busy enough to require double-booking visits and it being harder to get two members per night several nights per week.
Now I think splits are more about getting investigators to know
someonein the ward and placing the brunt of the missionaries’ transportation costs on the local members. May 15, 2017 at 1:31 pm #320984Anonymous
GuestThe Conscription Model of Church Service — Is there a better way? Sometimes, not always.
I’m a broken record but it feels like the members were created for the programs and not the programs created for the members. Programs could be presented as opportunities that are available to people for them to follow their passions, explore interests, or to be with friends but programs feel more like obligations, expectations placed on every member.
I’m not trying to say that
allprograms can be blown off but I am saying that we should think long and hard as to whether a program is “mission critical.” Movie trailer voice: In a world without janitors… cleaning the chapel on Saturday (even if only once every other week) might be mission critical but missionary splits, indexing genealogical records, being the 8th man to staff the temple baptistery, and getting home andvisiting teachers (doubling up the effort) into everyhome eachmonth may not be as mission critical. Not every church program has a priority of “one,” which I think is reflected in practice, we just feel guilt for the stuff that doesn’t get done or even press so hard as to “conscript” people to do things. I think one of the reasons conscription exists is to share the load, take some of the burdens off the same 12 people that do everything… but here’s the thing:
We’re talking about how to get people that are prone to not do much (sometimes we call these people “lazy”) engaged in church programs. I think it would help to recognize that some people just aren’t going to be passionate about doing stuff. Of the people that would do things but aren’t, what’s at the heart of the issue:
1) The people are deficient in some way. Sinners, lazy, deadbeats, etc.
2) The programs don’t generate any interest… at all.
I’m going to be completely honest here… there’s not a calling in this church that interests me right now. Not one. But I want to contribute to my community so I suck it up and do something I have zero enthusiasm to do, maybe even loathe doing, but I do it because… loyalty, responsibility, or to alleviate the burdens of the same 12 people.
From that part in Nacho Libre where the priests are complaining about Nacho’s cooking (while giving him no support with buying ingredients):
SeƱor Ramon: Your only job is to cook. Do you not realize I have had diarrhea since Easters?
Nacho: Ok… Maybe I am not meant for these duties. Cooking duty. Dead guy… duty. Maybe it’s time for me to get a better duty!
So is the problem members that can’t cook or is the problem trying to turn every member into a cook? Do we need some lucha libre programs in the church? …if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree…
May 15, 2017 at 1:40 pm #320985Anonymous
GuestSilentDawning wrote:
First, find the people who have passion for the various tasks that need to be done. This means having an inventory of what people really enjoy doing in the church, and make sure there is alignment between their passions and the work they are asked to do in the church.I mentioned some of this in the other post. I don’t know where most people fall but I can’t think of
anycalling that aligns with my passions right now. I don’t fit in any of the current pigeonholes at church. I suspect there are a lot of people in similar shoes. All the duties stink so it ends up being “you gotta do what you gotta do.” Can we let people create their
owncalling? How about: “ask and listen.” My experience is that when it comes to callings it’s mostly all “tell.”
I’ve mentioned this on this site before as well. Some people do have passions about callings. I’ve known many people in church that held the exact same calling for decades. It’s where they want to be… and if someone else comes along and has a passion about being the ward clerk but someone in the ward already has tenure in that calling… oh well.
May 15, 2017 at 2:07 pm #320987Anonymous
GuestReading through Nibbler’s post, I just came up with a GRANDidea. What if we conscript those reliant on fast offerings (within reason) for activities such as chapel cleaning, setting up for activities, church groundswork, etc? That way, it’s not feeling like a handout; the families are “taking responsibility” for their finances, even though they’d be getting a substantial “hourly wage”. And it removes the burden from the members who pay tithing/fast offerings. Come to think of it, why doesn’t the Church (or the State for that matter) just hire the poor and the needy for a reasonably short community service project on a weekly basis? I’m sure there are plenty of members in every ward who would willingly sign up as a janitor, rather than going through the humiliation of asking the Bishop for a handout. I know I would.
May 15, 2017 at 2:20 pm #320988Anonymous
GuestI don’t know how it works church wide but people that receive fast offering monies in our area are expected/required to show up to clean the chapel and do other service projects on church grounds. May 15, 2017 at 2:49 pm #320989Anonymous
Guestnibbler wrote:
I don’t know how it works church wide but people that receive fast offering monies in our area are expected/required to show up to clean the chapel and do other service projects on church grounds.
I’m not opposed to that idea at all, but it doesn’t work that way in my ward. For building cleaning we have “teams” that work on a rotational basis. The positive part of that is that our team assignment only comes up about every 10 weeks. Those receiving welfare assistance are just on a team like everyone else. I’m not aware that there are any “extra” expectations for them, some aren’t active at all.
I also agree with Dande, but I wouldn’t hold my breath for that to happen. We wouldn’t want anybody stealing any blessings from the rest of, now would we?
:problem: May 15, 2017 at 3:40 pm #320990Anonymous
GuestI heard somewhere that in an affluent ward that someone sent some paid cleaning folks to take their place when asked to clean the church. From what I recall, it caused a real ruckus. I never heard the perspective of those that sent the hired hands. I could see it either being a situation where a very responsible person just couldn’t make the schedule given and didn’t want to shirk their duty so they sent in replacements. Or it could have been someone that felt scrubbing a toilet was too far below them to do that. May 15, 2017 at 5:58 pm #320986Anonymous
GuestLet me ask you this — if we have an organization where, as Nibbler puts it, the vast majority of the jobs are not fulfilling, are drudgerous, and unwanted, then why commit to such an organization? Happiness is the object and design of our existence isn’t it? So, why not go somewhere where the work is fulfilling with your service hours, rather than dedicate them all to the church? Anyway, I find there are still things I enjoy doing at church — I like working alongside people freely of my own will on non-doctrinal projects. I like service projects, socials, certain activities involving socializing and food. I like speaking and training in ways that I find meaningful. If asked to work toward a continuous improvement of the church experience, I would be all over it.
But I had someone who finds it all distasteful, then perhaps that person needs a check-in every now and then while they sit on the bench for a while, for assume creative assignments that align with what they want at church.
I know from this discussion forum, many of us would like a calling where we help leaders and TBM’s understand the perspective of people in faith or commitment crises.
Tough spot to be a bishop or SP. You’ve got these endless programs and little that is new over your term as a Bishop or SP…and the tools passion, guilt, duty, quid pro quo, love, spiritual teaching — those are the tools of motivation, and not all are effective with all people.
May 15, 2017 at 6:45 pm #320991Anonymous
GuestSlight correction: the majority of jobs are not fulfilling to meand I’ll further qualify that by saying “at this moment in my life.” Life circumstances change all the time. I think callings are fulfilling for many members but at the same time I think church programs are on autopilot. Church is the way it is because that’s the way it has always been. I think there could be a period of reevaluation, a sit down where we figure out how to meet the needs of members in 2017, but instead it feels like programs came about in an era before I was born and in an environment where everyone in the ward lives within walking distance of each other and they’re going to stay that way… because that’s what we do at church.
I believe people need social interactions and community but the way people interact with one another has changed drastically since the days the programs were first written on stone tablets long ago.
SilentDawning wrote:
Anyway, I find there are still things I enjoy doing at church — I like working alongside people freely of my own will on non-doctrinal projects. I like service projects, socials, certain activities involving socializing and food. I like speaking and training in ways that I find meaningful. If asked to work toward a continuous improvement of the church experience, I would be all over it.
I’d love doing those things and I typed up a long, drawn out story that I could share in private but the short version is that the scripture says people should be ” anxiously engaged in a good cause, and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness;” IMO church programs are for when people need a little help finding ways to reach out to help others.
So we’re back to life experiences… there are times when I’ve been stretched to the absolute max and I’ve found that church programs become a yoke, a burden that becomes hard to bear. Now if life settles and I find myself getting bored, sure I’ll start looking into being a ward missionary or whatever it is that people who lead relatively carefree lives have the luxury of worrying about.
Sorry for the rant. It’s just that I’m at a stage in life where “programs” have become a weight around my neck, yet another responsibility in an endless sea of problems I’m dealing with but when I go to church and have to act like the church stuff takes #1 priority.
So they aren’t currently fulfilling because:
1) I’m already overworked. I’m not a special snowflake in this regard, other people have got it hard too. Life gets in the way sometimes. There’s no reason callings and church programs should be a sword of Damocles over people’s heads.
2) I’m in a different place in my faith journey now and sometimes I project myself onto others. I don’t really need the church programs so programs start to feel like pointless busywork… even though I know they are very meaningful to others. That’s fine. The people that find them meaningful will participate, which is kind of my point. The programs are for the people, not the other way around.
This isn’t the best plan for low church membership density areas or areas where the stakes are large but I’ve often wondered if some of the programs that take place at the ward level couldn’t be handled at the stake level, like instead of having a scout troop for each ward where there’s an expectation that every boy of scout age participate – do one or two scout troops at the stake level where only the people interested in scouts participate.
And of course the irony is that the way we do scouts is the most recent church program where leaders have kicked the dust up.
May 16, 2017 at 8:43 am #320992Anonymous
Guestnibbler wrote:
This isn’t the best plan for low church membership density areas or areas where the stakes are large but I’ve often wondered if some of the programs that take place at the ward level couldn’t be handled at the stake level, like instead of having a scout troop for each ward where there’s an expectation that every boy of scout age participate – do one or two scout troops at the stake level where only the people interested in scouts participate.
I like this idea a lot. It might work well for the remaining BSA participation the Church will have because (as I’ve read) normal BSA troops have 50 members or more. Also, and this is key for youth, people would be more likely to find others with similar interests. Organizing and carrying out the programs’ functions would be easier because the participants would be more invested. Fewer callings overall would be necessary. It could even be done at a multi-stake level in some situations.
A couple of possible issues:
It’d be harder for people in low-membership areas to participate because they’d have to travel farther. (Example: it takes us about an hour to drive to our stake center for seminary activities.)
- How would we measure success, if not by the standard metric, turnout?
I hope issue 1 would be offset by increased interest and the slowly percolating idea that members don’t need to participate in all the programs.
I’m drawing a blank on issue 2.
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