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Background:I am the sole breadwinner for our household and I have a generic Associate’s degree. Circumstances are not changing the sole bread-winning situation, but we are reaching the point where I need to go back to school to get a better degree to get a higher-paying job. We have been mulling our options for a while, but it looks like Pathways is the best course of action for us. I get a year of easing into school, and then should be able to get a degree I can use on applications for a price we can afford. I am horrible at job hunting, pushing myself into going back to school, and other real life things.
Current Situation:1. My husband does not know I am in a faith turmoil situation. (I can’t say crisis because it’s not really at crisis level – so, I will go with turmoil. By “turmoil” it means I no longer believe everything I was taught verbatim, and am sorting things out. I still go to church, but play hooky more. I probably won’t bear a testimony on Fast Sunday. While I am TR-worthy, I may not go to the temple. ).
Going to an Institute class while in a faith turmoil is tough to swallow because I will be devoting resources to speaking sheep-ese and be on “my best behavior”. However, it means I can be there to help others if they are in a faith turmoil as well, and give people something to think about.
2. Sometimes it is hard enough to get emails at work from my husband saying how the girls are driving him nuts. Now I am signing up to extend the time away from my family and supporting him. He will also have to step up more at home to cover more of the chores I cover. I am nervous about this, but recognize it is an opportunity being forced on him to step up and serve our family. And he can’t get upset at me for it, because he has made it a point to tell us that he can support this.
3. In a sense I am painting a “I’m Mormon” sign on my resume more than I already have, and that might have consequences. Since I am in Michigan, it may be a thing, or may not be a thing.
Thank you for listening. I would ask that ya’ll just keep being yourselves and let me get my reality check here:)
I can agree that the pathways program has some real positives ($$ being one of them). But you have to tow the church line a bit to stay in it. I would agree that many employers look for the check box of a 4 year degree and often will do the first “weeding out” based on that. I would also encourage you to do as much networking as possible. Quite often the adage “it’s not what you know, but who you know” has quite a bit of truth in it. Ask people you respect for mentoring. It often flatters them to be asked and they will not only give you advice, but even look out for you to make sure their advice ends up being right (i.e. finding you a job).
Good luck!
I respect greatly the Church’s commitment to providing educational opportunities to its members at ridiculously low costs. I love the concept of Pathways, and I like the partnering the Church is doing with other institutions (like Arizona State, I believe) to broaden the degree offerings beyond what BYU-I can provide. Having spent the last eight years in college admissions, I encourage any member who wants to get a degree in one of the fields available through Pathways (or who wants to get any Bachelor’s Degree simply to improve their resume in order to get a better job) to do so. The crazy low costs simply make it a no-brainer, in my mind – even if it requires Institute attendance at the beginning. I wouldn’t worry about the name on the degree. The difference between the BYUs isn’t understood very well in the workplace. BYU-I is essentially a four-year degree granting community college, since they will admit pretty much anyone – but most people don’t know that. BYU-Provo actually is respected nationally from an academic standpoint, and most people who see the degree on your resume will associate it with their impressions of BYU-Provo. They will see it like a regional campus of a large, state university. I believe the degree itself outweighs any stigma attached to the institutional name.
I hope you husband steps up and supports you in this. That question shouldn’t keep you from pursuing the degree, given how important it is to have a degree in your situation.
I’m just starting my career, but I can’t say that it has hurt me to have BYU on my resume- and I live in Colorado. The majority of places it would significantly hurt my ability to get employment would be companies I would not feel comfortable working for. Even with the changing trends toward censorship of wrongthink (YMMV) and the purging of non-leftists in Silicon Valley, I don’t think a BYU degree significantly impacts that. Good luck with Pathways. I hear it’s a great program.
AmyJ wrote:
…Going to an Institute class while in a faith turmoil is tough to swallow because I will be devoting resources to speaking sheep-ese and be on “my best behavior”.
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2. he has made it a point to tell us that he can support this.
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3. In a sense I am painting a “I’m Mormon” sign on my resume more than I already have, and that might have consequences. Since I am in Michigan, it may be a thing, or may not be a thing.
Hi AmyJ,
Many of Pathway attendees are 30+ or 40+ in my experience and in many cases more confident in not pandering to the instructor in “sheep-ese”. There will still be some of it but it probably won’t be like attending the required Book of Mormon class at BYU. One of my best friends is 43 and wrapping up Pathways and he’s anything but the stereotypical Mormon. In face he categorically refuses to step foot on any BYU campus but has thrived in Pathways.
It might be worthwhile having an open conversation with hubby and kids to remind them this is a multi-year commitment and that it will require sacrifices from him and the entire family. Everybody should have an understanding about the time commitment but also the benefits you hope to gain after graduating.
I have BYU on my resume and I work for one of the most liberal companies in the USA and which is headquartered in liberal California. I do have a masters from a school that isn’t BYU which helps mitigate the problem, but everyone knows I’m Mormon anyways. While being Mormon hasn’t helped me it hasn’t hurt me either. Most professionals these days understand that religion isn’t necessarily an indicator of on the job performance. I’d say the same thing about other minority religions such as Jews and Muslims. That being said I don’t advertise that I’m Mormon either.
The degree without the burden of large debt will be much more helpful from BYU-I than not having the degree. I agree with Ray on this one.
Best wishes in Pathways!
Best of luck to you, Amy! I think it is definitely a step in the right direction. A few thoughts: 1. I’m not sure how things are off in your neck of the woods, but over here in the Grand Rapids/Holland area of Michigan, things are VERY Christian, in a positive way. People out here tend to value good, ol’ traditional Christian values, and have never felt like I was discriminated against (unlike Nebraska or Missouri) for being LDS. Businesses here look for those with strong ethics, and religious devotion is viewed as a sign of strong ethics. If you were to move to a more secular part of the country, then you might run into the opposite problem, but in Michigan I think it’ll be a boon to your resume, if anything.
2. What matters most is not where you go to college, but how well you did while you were there. Someone with straight As at BYU-I will have a greater chance of getting into law school, or landing a job, than a straight B student from BYU.
3. The time is going to pass either way. A few years from now, you’re either going to have your 4-year degree, or you will not. It’ll take a lot of work, and a lot of sacrifice, but I’m confident you’ll make it through, and be better for it.
4. With institute, most scriptures/manuals are on the phone/tablet/etc. I take full advantage of this fact at Church. I “might” be studiously following along, or I “might” be reading Nedroid. No one can say!
My neighbor did Pathways and found it very helpful. The part that would be hardest for me is the required religion part. That part of the curriculum requires you to read a specific LDS article and report to someone about what you read. Her atheist dad wanted no part of it, so she would come down and do it for me. The selected articles were tough to swallow, even for me, and I can usually work my way around the topic. If that happens my advice comes from a Bishop who sent his kids to a Jesuit School. Just answer the lesson the way they wanted it answered. Don’t wade in deeper than necessary. For his kids they just copied Catholic language that the instructors would accept and let it go.
Like everyone else has said, don’t worry about the Mormonishness on your resume. My sister worked at Stanford University with BYU proudly typed on her resume. No one flinched.
Good luck. Enjoy the accomplishment.
Just to give you another option, California Coast University is a pretty cheap (for profit) option for correspondence education. Pros: Correspondence means that you pretty much work at your own pace and free time (no classes or meetings). You must complete at least two classes per year to stay enrolled. Cost is cheap and there are payment options available.
Cons: Nationally but not regionally accredited. This means that federal agencies like the military and federal loan programs recognize the school and the degree. Other schools probably will not. For example if you wanted to take your California Coast bachelor’s degree and go to BYU for your Master’s, BYU would likely not recognize your bachelor’s degree.
Almost all employers are oblivious to the distinction in accreditation and will accept the degree.
I would also welcome Ray’s perspective on the matter. Anyway, just another option to consider.
My input is simple: Accreditation matters, a lot. Be very careful about any institution with a wonky accreditation status, particularly if you are planning on getting an advanced degree.
I also have a bias against for-profit colleges and universities. I have seen WAY too much that is shady about the way so many operate. I am not addressing California Coast University, since I know nothing about them; it is just a general statement.
As far as cost is concerned, nobody beats Pathways. It really is stupid low, as my kids would say.
Thanks Ray. As a friend and as someone with significant experience in this area, I value your input. I agree wholeheartedly with Ray’s assessment above about people being in the dark about the difference between BYU-P and BYU-I. I don’t think it’ll be a problem having the Mormon school on your resume either. I wasn’t aware that it might matter in Missouri or Nebraska though, that is news to me. I had my mission on my resume for years and people know I’m a Mormon at work but that never hurt me, that I’m aware of. In a few cases I think it actually elevated me in the eyes of my bosses, one of which was edumuckated at a Christian school. Roy wrote:
Cons: Nationally but not regionally accredited. This means that federal agencies like the military and federal loan programs recognize the school and the degree. Other schools probably will not. For example if you wanted to take your California Coast bachelor’s degree and go to BYU for your Master’s, BYU would likely not recognize your bachelor’s degree.I am glad Roy shared this above, and I agree with Ray that this is a BIG ONE. Accreditation. Regionally accredited is the only way to go in my view.
I also learned from doing a PHD that many employers and schools look at whether the school has programmatic accreditation when hiring professors and employees in certain fields. So, if you want to teach at an ACBSP school – (ACBSP is an accreditation body for business programs), you have to have a PhD from an ACBSP accredited school. While I don’t know your specific field, it does show how important accreditation is, and that regionally accredited schools, in my view are the top of the scale and the only school I would consider going to. I know that TAC of ABET (engineering accreditation) also carries a lot of weight in the industry when considering graduates worthiness….and for a while the Project Management Institute was accrediting schools providing project management credentials — so programmatic accreditation is important to look at in some fields.
This is the extent of my knowledge, but it puts the programmatic accreditation of the school on the radar when assessing a school, — assuming programmatic accreditation is important for your career path.
Regarding your husband stepping up at home, that is a challenge. Hopefully he will do a good job of it. I had a friend in my work who went back to school late in life. She told me one that one thing she had to do was drop her standards a bit when her family took over the work load when she went back to school for her bachelors degree.
As far as pushing yourself to do the work — I’m with you on that. I am in the last quartile of my life, probably, and I am still going to school — still pushing myself. On my sixth terminal degree or certificate, and still pushing myself. The good news is that schools have deadlines and penalties if you don’t stay on the wagon, and this can motivate you to get your work done. Plus the desire to change your circumstances is also a motivator. Reflect on those things often, and set aside time to get things done early.
I wish you luck and hope you check in for support as you go through your journey. I personally spend a lot of time giving people advice about how to succeed academically, and many here have experience in education to help you with any advice as you seek to improve your situation. I do believe that a strong economic base at home contributes much to happy and successful marriages, and can ease pressures that can otherwise create rocky relationships. It’s not everything but it’s another arrow in a person’s quiver as they pursue happiness and stability at home….
I also want to clarify one thing — I work in private education. Have done so for 22 years. Although I recognize that some schools have not been perfect, the one I work at genuinely cares about its students. As faculty we go the extra mile to make sure they understand. We give them a ton of office hours, well prepared classes, and we consider ourselves teachers first and researchers second.
All the full time people are outstanding teachers. And the visiting professors care too. We are constantly taught about our dual role as both mentors and customer service reps to our students. Mentors in that we have to give honest feedback and grade fairly and objectively, but customer service reps from the perspective of responsiveness, grading quickly and with quality, teaching well, and being positive, supportive and not arrogant.
Although public schools have their merits, I will say that as a student of “quality” public schools for my undergraduate and first graduate degree, their level of indifference to students who struggled with material was legendary. They were research universities, so the phrase “we don’t mind if you teach” typified academic leadership. In my private school, our management’s attitude is “we don’t mind if you research” — and scholarly activity represents only a small portion of our overall evaluation. And it can be achieved without research, but through conference attendance, consulting, or other means that don’t crowd our teaching. Teaching, along with student interaction make up the bulk of our annual evaluations.
So, while I know Ray has experience in private education from an admissions perspective, I am also under the hood in private education and am a strong believer in it, especially for student populations who have never been to university, and who need a strong support network you can’t get as easily at other public schools.
I have also seen many of my students go on and earn more than I did, particularly early in their career.
Anyway, not to derail the thread, but I thought I should mention my own counter balanced perspective.
But back to the point of the thread — I do think the Pathways program is likely a good alternative for people to get that boost in their education and hopefully their standard of living. While she is not a Pathways student, I am seeing my daughter benefit from the BYU Provo experience. It was challenging academically and I think part of the ability of BYU-P to attract such good students is a) the low tuition b) the social aspect of being a pool of unmarried people c) the limited enrollment. This allows you to turn away students and pick the creme of the crop.
But back to Pathways, I think you are doing a good thing as education has been a part of each of the decades in my life, and each time, it opened doors that otherwise would not be open to me.
SD
SD, just to be clear, I never said a thing about private vs. public education. My concern is with for-profit education and the abuses I have seen there. There are lots of excellent for-profit colleges; unfortunately, there also are a lot of shady, coercive, manipulative, over-priced for-profit colleges, as well. As a rule, I am wary of for-profit colleges – not condemning of all of them, but simply wary.
If you work at a private, for-profit college that is one of the good ones, great. I mean that seriously.
Old Timer wrote:
SD, just to be clear, I never said a thing about private vs. public education. My concern is with for-profit education and the abuses I have seen there.There are lots of excellent for-profit colleges; unfortunately, there also are a lot of shady, coercive, manipulative, over-priced for-profit colleges, as well. As a rule, I am wary of for-profit colleges – not condemning of all of them, but simply wary.
If you work at a private, for-profit college that is one of the good ones, great. I mean that seriously.
I tend to use private and for-profit interchangeably although I recognize there are private, not for profits too. Thanks for the clarification. I have worked with a lot of really really good teachers at my school. Particularly impressed with the campus I am at now as the students never complain about their professors at all. In my home country they complained constantly about them. Not here. In my home country, I was probably one of the best. Here I am maybe in the top third but there are many others are absolutely stellar, and deeply caring about our students…some have been asked to mentor me in leadership and other areas and our relationship persists even after they left the school. That kind of good.
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