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June 7, 2017 at 10:35 pm #211480
Anonymous
GuestHi – This isn’t an LDS video but it mirrors so many areas our “purity” discussions cross. Watch – Share your thoughts –
June 8, 2017 at 5:13 pm #321537Anonymous
GuestI thought the video was pretty great. I am not a fan of “chastity” rings, or CTR rings for that matter. The issue is really a balancing act. It’s really important to keep our “sexual appitites” under control; it doesn’t matter if you’re a man, woman, teenager, or adult. The law of chastity, defined as refraining from all sexual activity outside the bonds of monogamy, is very important. It’s also much easier to never commit the “sin” (any “sin”), rather than repent and never commit it again.
The Church has largely been focused on “preventon” rather than “damage control”. This is because prevention is a lot easier than repentance. Everyone feels happier when they are given a good pat on the back. No one likes to be told they need to repent. It’s difficult. It hurts. You feel shame. And let’s be honest, sex feels FANTASTIC. There’s not only the physical sensation, the excitement, but there is also the emotional connection. It’s addictive. But it can also cause real problems, when it is outside a 100% commited relationship.
It’s HARD to repent. It’s also hard not to return to the “sin” once you’ve had that experience. Once upon a time, back in my college dating years, the virginity of a YW never really bothered me. My stance originally was, if she messed up in the past and repented, it’s not my place to even care. I had a number of girlfriends, two of which had sex before marriage, both claimed repentance and held temple recommends. Unfortunately, both cheated on me by sleeping around… and then it became a bigger deal. I’ve always believed repentence is 100% possible, “white as snow”, and all that. But I developed strong “trust issues”, and certain “baggage” I didn’t feel like I could deal with.
So the real question is, how do we encourage (not just the young, nor just the women) law of chasisty (no porn, no-fap, no extra-marital sex) as effectively as possible? How to we emphasize the seriousness of the sin, while also emphasizing the power of repentance?
June 8, 2017 at 5:22 pm #321538Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:
So the real question is, how do we encourage (not just the young, nor just the women) law of chasisty (no porn, no-fap, no extra-marital sex) as effectively as possible? How to we emphasize the seriousness of the sin, while also emphasizing the power of repentance?
Never, ever, ever talking about the seriousness without emphasizing the power of repentance would be a good start.
June 8, 2017 at 6:34 pm #321539Anonymous
GuestThere are some important points from the video that I want to highlight. 1) There is a double standard in how purity is taught. For the girls their bodies are made to seem like a gift that they preserve and then give to their husbands. The boys in this mindset are the consumers and the girls are the products to be consumed.
2) Purity object lessons in this regard almost always stink!!! Elizabeth Smart was a perfect spokesman for why the “chewed gum” analogy is harmful.
3) Purity is not principally about virginity but really how we conduct ourselves to reflect the light of Christ that is within us.
4) She makes a great point about the problems of stressing that virginity before marriage is required in order to be an acceptable marriage partner. The all or nothing nature makes girls that have made mistakes feel that it is a lost cause – that they are that half candybar/dirty water/chewed gum.
5) That to live one’s life in deference to a future husband is to wrongly place him in the Christ’s proper position. Christ is the one that paid for us. It is to Christ (and ourselves) that we should pay respect through our actions.
Quote:Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body.
June 8, 2017 at 8:03 pm #321540Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:It’s HARD to repent. It’s also hard not to return to the “sin” once you’ve had that experience. Once upon a time, back in my college dating years, the virginity of a YW never really bothered me. My stance originally was, if she messed up in the past and repented, it’s not my place to even care. I had a number of girlfriends, two of which had sex before marriage, both claimed repentance and held temple recommends. Unfortunately, both cheated on me by sleeping around… and then it became a bigger deal. I’ve always believed repentence is 100% possible, “white as snow”, and all that. But I developed strong “trust issues”, and certain “baggage” I didn’t feel like I could deal with.
I know my opinion here will differ from most so I”ll just keep it to myself.
🙂 Dande – I know that was your experience but it sounds as if you’re suggesting that women (or people in general) who have sex before marriage will not be faithful in a relationship. I don’t agree with that at all.
Also I’m not sure actually experiencing the sin is what’s really making it hard not to return to. You likely sinned because it’s a temptation for you, that’s what makes it hard and makes it easier to return to. For most I’d say sex is a strong temptation but I don’t think experiencing it necessarily makes it harder to resist. Unless you have the “i’m broken now” mentality that can be ingrained by improper teachings through the church and decide to just do whatever you want.
I’ve broken the WoW in the past yet feel no desire to do so again. Why? Because it’s just not my thing. It’s not a temptation for me. We can still sin without temptation. I think that’s an important distinction to make.
June 8, 2017 at 9:50 pm #321541Anonymous
Guestunsure wrote:
I know my opinion here will differ from most so I”ll just keep it to myself.
I personally would love to hear differing opinions. As long as you keep it constructive and respectful I encourage you to share.
June 8, 2017 at 10:41 pm #321542Anonymous
GuestUnsure – I am with Roy. If you can frame it well (even half well) let’s hear it. One point that I wish both religions (Evangelical and Ours) is that repentance part. Tomorrow, the next hour, the next week. Those are new days. A fresh sheet of paper to write your life story on. Life gives us multiple chances to move forward. I am not condoning slip shod living with a lick and prayer apology. But I think we are harder on ourselves than God is or ever will be. Yes he wants our best. He wants us to enjoy our best. He also was fully aware that NO ONE was going to get through this life unscarred.
The point that jumped at me, was the irony in the model of the girls get the heavy talk, the guys get a reminder. Though we don’t do it the same. We do lay all the blame on the girl. How she dressed. Which body parts showed. How she flirted, etc. They guy is just a pawn to her wiles. Now to be fair, guys have a serious porn/masturbate issue – which is just as unbalanced and destructive.
I also found it comforting that other churches don’t do it right either. Bless them. I have so many friends whose kids have taken the purity pledge, written their love note to their unkown future spouse, and pray daily that neither one of them will screw up. Ironically King David screwed up big time. And it was the second son of that pairing who got the throne. So who knows. If God is in charge, maybe we should step out of the way.
June 9, 2017 at 3:59 am #321543Anonymous
GuestInteresting read going to a different extreme http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-this-mom-wont-teach-her-daughters-to-dress-modestly_us_59395838e4b0c5a35c9cd890?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-this-mom-wont-teach-her-daughters-to-dress-modestly_us_59395838e4b0c5a35c9cd890?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313 June 9, 2017 at 5:29 am #321544Anonymous
GuestLookingHard wrote:
Interesting read going to a different extremehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-this-mom-wont-teach-her-daughters-to-dress-modestly_us_59395838e4b0c5a35c9cd890?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-this-mom-wont-teach-her-daughters-to-dress-modestly_us_59395838e4b0c5a35c9cd890?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313
I can’t believe this is correctly quoted. A 7 year old said this???
😯 Disclaimer – I only skimmed
From the article:
Quote:Cosette, 7, says, “I wear what I like but I make sure my vulva is covered.”
June 9, 2017 at 6:11 am #321545Anonymous
GuestAs far as my differing opinion I’ve thought about it a little bit and I’m not sure what I was thinking really fits into the context of what we are focusing on here. I don’t have all the answers to how we should teach our youth about purity but I don’t think we do it the right way. We need to make sure we emphasize that we always have repentance and the atonement available to us when teaching those lessons. We need to do away with the terrible analogies that make it seem like they are somehow only part of a person or forever altered if they do make a mistake.
I don’t think tank tops or short that hit above the knees on women are big deal. I don’t think laying the blame on women for mens thoughts is in any way a good thing. I also don’t think sexual sin is as big of a deal as we make it out to be which is where I really differ but I’m not sure it fits or needs to be discussed here. (Not trying to justify my past behaviors or make it seem like sex is no big deal.)
June 9, 2017 at 2:16 pm #321546Anonymous
Guestunsure wrote:
Dande – I know that was your experience but it sounds as if you’re suggesting that women (or people in general) who have sex before marriage will not be faithful in a relationship. I don’t agree with that at all.
I was not suggesting that. But dating is one of the few instances where “judging” to an extent is necessary. It’s risk assesment, combined with pattern recognition. In relationships, we’re always faced with incomplete information. It’s impossible to learn everything essential about another person, even if they’re an open book. The question is not “Will everyone who’s had sex before marriage be unfaithful?” That’s a rhetorical, straw-man argument-phrased-as-a-question. The answer is, of course, “no”. More likely? I’d say “yes”.
The real question is “Given this person’s past experience (according to the information I have), what is the probability I could expect certain behaviors in the future? If these behaviors show up in our future relationship, would that relationship still provide the security and emotional connection I require? To what extent? Is this acceptable risk?” As I gained more (albiet limited) experience, my answers changed drastically.
There are also major differences between the WoW and sex. Sex is biologically essential for the survival of the species, and our bodies have been hardwired to recognize that. There are exceptions, but I would readily say that the Law of Chasisty is a more common problem than the WoW.
June 9, 2017 at 11:03 pm #321547Anonymous
GuestQuote:The point that jumped at me, was the irony in the model of the girls get the heavy talk, the guys get a reminder. Though we don’t do it the same. We do lay all the blame on the girl. How she dressed. Which body parts showed. How she flirted, etc.
There is one obvious reason why – pregnancy. Men get the bum deal when it comes to child custody, financial support etc but women get to carry the baby. Even if there is an abortion, pregnancy is a big deal.
This is separate to how she interacts.
June 9, 2017 at 11:08 pm #321548Anonymous
GuestOne disturbing trend I’ve noticed in modern society is going away from intimacy and emotional connection to meaningless physical intercourse. This is all fine and well if you are young and attractive, but since many people start losing their looks at twenty five or earlier, you are chasing diminishing returns. I also believe this reflects the egotistical trend we see on social media and ends up making people lonely. Also we have an STD problem of epidemic proportions in the west amongst teenagers that no one is really talking about and condoms do not protect against all of them.
June 10, 2017 at 3:22 am #321549Anonymous
GuestI support the Law of Chastity and modesty completely. I don’t support the way we have taught and still teach both of those principles.
For example, too often, we teach immodesty in the name of modesty. Modesty literally means moderation – acting between two competing extremes – and acting appropriately for the situation at the time. A modest income means one that is neither small nor large; a modest house means the same thing; modest language actually means not speaking too much or too little, and not overly-flowery or overly-course in the words used. Modesty means wearing a swimsuit to the beach or lake or pool, and not wearing a swimsuit to a professional office or to church. Modesty means having strong beliefs but being open to new ideas and beliefs. Modesty is proper balance.
Modesty is NOT a dress that covers the entire body and shows no flesh. That is immodesty. Modesty, literally defined precisely, would mean covering roughly half of one’s body in clothing. There is no clearly defined way to do that, but, given our focus on chests and crotches, something that covers those and not much else would be modest, strictly defined.
We go about discussing and teaching about sex with this same warped, immodest approach. Complete abstinence from ALL things even remotely sexual is immodest. In fact, it is extremely immodest.
I could go on and on, but that would be immodest.
June 10, 2017 at 6:26 am #321550Anonymous
GuestThank you for sharing the original video. I agree with everything she stated. Below is a link to a NPR talk on girls and pleasure that I found insightful. I do wish society and the church broadened discussions into areas other than “Women as Sexual Gatekeepers”.
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