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June 13, 2017 at 9:19 pm #211484
Anonymous
GuestTL;DR: I came out to my kids, and they’re awesome. So is my wife. Sunday night, we were due to read Mormon 9 at bed time. Medium story short, we read the next chapter instead, and when DD2 asked why we weren’t reading Mormon 9, I said, “Because it’s full of hateful bull****.”
I stand by my statement, for what it’s worth. Well, maybe it’s not “full,” but it’s definitely
ripe. I didn’t want to leave that emotional bombshell undefused, so FHE on Monday night was a “Daddy talks about his faith transition” discussion. Mormon 9 turned out to be an ideal framework for it. Here’s how it went down.
First, I coordinated with DW in private. I can’t stress enough how important this was. As it happened, my take on Mormon 9 made her defensive because she’s been reading it nonliterally for so long that she couldn’t see the literal meaning without some work. Defensiveness from her during the discussion could have made the kids feel like I’ve done something wrong. DW also had great ideas; for example, that the #1 objective should be that they feel loved and safe.
I told the kids two implications of the literal meaning of the first few verses in Mormon 9. 1. If you don’t believe in Christ, it’s because you choose not to (the operative word is “deny”). 2. If you don’t believe in Christ, you’ve spent your life abusing God’s laws. We talked about counterexamples to both implications (good Muslims, good atheists), and about how believing those implications can poison our relationships. Using an additional example from the Old Testament – the Lord commanding the Israelite army to kill every Amalekite man, woman and child – I pointed out how always understanding the scriptures literally can make you a worse person. They dug it.
Then we talked about DW’s nonliteral reading: broadening the idea of believing in Christ to include believing in what he did and taught. Anybody who believes in lifting, loving and healing others believes in Christ in this sense, including good Muslims and good atheists. The indictments in Mormon 9 don’t apply to them.
Obviously, I said, this didn’t explain my outburst. I had felt attacked, I told them, because
Idon’t believe in Christ in a literal sense. I didn’t tell them why. I identified myself as an agnostic deist and defined the term. I had to explain a few times what I don’t believe from different perspectives before it really started to sink in. The prior discussion set me up to tell them that I do believe in Christ in a nonliteral sense – that I believe in lifting, loving and healing. DD1 wasn’t surprised at all. (She already knew I don’t accept the Book of Mormon as a literal history.) The rest of them were. DW and I asked them a few times throughout the discussion how they felt, and whether they had questions. They took it surprisingly well: no tears, no blame, no anger. Nothing negative, really. Nobody had questions, though DW brought up eternal marriage and I said I hope we’re together but I don’t think the Church has any special authority to make it happen. I said they probably would have questions later, and that they could ask either of us – but that DW would likely direct questions about what I believe and why to me.
We assured them that things aren’t changing: I’m still the Primary pianist, I’m not going to go out drinking, etc. Most of all, we assured them that I’m still the same person, and that I love them. Well, one thing will change: I’ll occasionally bring up challenging ideas. As a believer, I used to avoid thinking about certain things. It turns out that most of them aren’t worth thinking about, but a few of them really are, and I think it’s important to discuss them.
DW talked me up a bit: I’m thoughtful and deliberate, and put in a lot of work to come to my conclusions. Also that I respect her beliefs, and that she respects mine.
We asked them to keep it all between us: not to tell people at Church or even extended family. Again, Mormon 9 helped: I could name specific people in the ward who are good people, but who are unlikely to understand because they almost certainly believe black-and-white ideas like those in the literal reading of Mormon 9. (Maybe it really is inspired!)
We told them how much we love them and feel fortunate to be their parents. Hugs all around.
I feel like a great weight has been lifted off my shoulders. It was comprised of a hundred little things. One example: if they notice that I hardly ever volunteer to pray, they can figure out why instead of worrying about it or putting my wife on the spot.
If there’s a moral to this, I suppose it’s “Don’t underestimate what your kids can handle, especially if you break the news as a couple and are united in love.”
June 13, 2017 at 9:32 pm #321607Anonymous
GuestThis was a very healthy approach you & your wife took. I believe that when you talk honestly with your family about your beliefs & feelings, the more willing they will
be to talk to you openly too. Excellent!!
I like the moral to the story at the end.
June 13, 2017 at 10:28 pm #321608Anonymous
GuestI am so happy that it went well for you. I personally am taking the approach of dripping out information drop by drop – not to challenge faith but just to look at things from different viewpoints. Then again we do not read scriptures as a family so there is much less opportunity for religious talk. Honestly at my kids ages (9 & 11) they do not seem to care much for religious talk anyway.
Similar to the sex talk. I always answer questions honestly and if the kids are ready to ask they are probably ready for an answer.
But I also respect your approach and see some advantages to it.
June 13, 2017 at 10:33 pm #321609Anonymous
GuestWow. I am impressed! Kudos to your wife especially. June 13, 2017 at 11:10 pm #321610Anonymous
GuestReuben, I’m inspired by your post! Reading through other comments and posts over the past few months I think you and I are at similar places in our faith journeys (although I’m not sure I would call myself a deist yet – so far just agnostic or even atheist but my journey is ongoing). I hope I can do something similar someday with my kids. I don’t think DW would be on board yet though. If you don’t mind my asking, what ages are your kids? I have four ages 9, 7, 5, and 2 so probably a bit young still. But I am having a hard time lately with feeling like I can’t even be authentic in my own home. It’s one thing to feel like that at church, but to a certain extent I can abide by the “their club, their rules” approach and get by. But at home it’s much harder. And DW still wants me to lead out in FHE, family scripture, and family prayer and sometimes it’s really hard. Any advice on the issue of not being able to be authentic in your own home and how you got to the point where your spouse was more accepting of your unorthodox viewpoints?
June 13, 2017 at 11:56 pm #321611Anonymous
GuestI’m only a deist in the sense that I hope there’s something more out there. I’m well aware that the question “Then who made God?” exposes the weakness of that hope. When I describe myself as an “agnostic deist,” the word “agnostic” does almost all of the work. My wife might have started out just as accepting as she is now, but I don’t really know. I’ll ask her.
June 14, 2017 at 3:17 am #321612Anonymous
GuestThat is so good to read, Reuben. I hope everything goes well as things unfold. There will be bumps, obviously, but you have a good start.
June 14, 2017 at 3:41 am #321613Anonymous
GuestI love this. I’m so glad it went well and that your burden is now lighter. I agree that kids can often handle more than we realize. DH and I are open about what we believe with our 12- and 11-year-olds, and they have handled it much better than I’d expected, thus far. I think you’ve set a better example of how to express our beliefs to our kids than I have been doing; you planned what you were going to say in advance with your wife, and you made sure it was done so that the kids felt safe and loved. I really need to follow this strategy. DH and I too often use humor/sarcasm when it would be better not to, and we’ve been lousy at careful advanced planning. (It’s likely not helping either of the kids to hear the parents make jokes about how you need male genitalia to hold a Sacrament tray. We sometimes act like big children, ourselves. 😳 )Thank you for sharing this. So awesome.
June 14, 2017 at 10:35 pm #321614Anonymous
GuestDoubtingTom wrote:
I hope I can do something similar someday with my kids. I don’t think DW would be on board yet though. If you don’t mind my asking, what ages are your kids? I have four ages 9, 7, 5, and 2 so probably a bit young still. But I am having a hard time lately with feeling like I can’t even be authentic in my own home. It’s one thing to feel like that at church, but to a certain extent I can abide by the “their club, their rules” approach and get by. But at home it’s much harder. And DW still wants me to lead out in FHE, family scripture, and family prayer and sometimes it’s really hard. Any advice on the issue of not being able to be authentic in your own home and how you got to the point where your spouse was more accepting of your unorthodox viewpoints?
I have four kids, ages 17, 15, 12 and 10.
I still lead FHE, family scripture, and family prayer. I rarely call on myself to pray anymore because I have a hard time coming up with anything to say. I get more out of family scripture reading now that we swap the genders of every non-deity figure every other night. (I’ve requested reading the New Testament next. We’ll read the NIV to make it legible. The Book of Mormon is relentlessly black and white in its outlook, and it’s wearing on me.) My wife does almost all of the actual FHE lessons.
She says she’s always been as accepting of my unorthodox beliefs as she is now, and I think she’s right. One thing has changed, though: she’s less anxious about our children picking them up from me. I’m not sure exactly why. It could just be that she’s gotten more used to them.
I can only parrot general advice I’ve read: respect her beliefs (which you probably already do) and involve her in your journey as much as she’ll let you (which again, you probably already do).
June 15, 2017 at 8:16 pm #321615Anonymous
GuestI love this. Thanks for sharing your approach, and how things are progressing. I might expand the moral of the story…not just our own kids, but I think the same can apply to ward members. Sometimes we don’t give them enough credit, and it is our own fears we are battling…not actually what people do or say to us. With courage and the right approach…people can accept us as we are…so we can drop the masks of trying hard to pretend to be who we think we should be.
And in that…we find peace.
Thanks!
June 16, 2017 at 2:45 am #321616Anonymous
GuestHeber, I think your mileage will vary. I do agree there are probably quite a few folks that are much more open to nuanced members, but a few hard nosed folks can make it a pain to come out – especially if that is your bishop. June 16, 2017 at 3:32 pm #321617Anonymous
GuestLookingHard wrote:
Heber, I think your mileage will vary. I do agree there are probably quite a few folks that are much more open to nuanced members, but a few hard nosed folks can make it a pain to come out – especially if that is your bishop.
100% agree. That is a good way to frame it. I guess…same could be said for families. some families would not be able to handle it the way Reuben got support from his spouse and the kids…mileage will vary…or as they say with investment advice: “Past performance may not be indicative of future results”.But, I guess the point I was making was that we sometimes fear that all members will act like the folks who will be hard nosed that make it a pain. We are sometimes surprised when there is more support and understanding than we fear.
But your disclaimer is a good reminder…it is likely some will never support the idea, the ones that are fighting to keep their own testimonies protected (instead of allowing themselves to openly listen to others’ experiences or ideas).
June 16, 2017 at 10:22 pm #321618Anonymous
GuestSkimming through your initial post, I thought you were talking about reading Moroni9. Which is also full of hateful bullcrap 😈 July 6, 2017 at 11:53 pm #321619Anonymous
GuestSounds like it went as well as it could have and you have an amazing family. I’m sure over time the news will leak, but I don’t see that as a bad thing:) -
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