Quick update on another meeting with SP

….he released me immediately, on the spot. He told me he wanted me to cease all EQP related activities effectively immediately. I asked if he wanted me to “sign out” anything to the next president for things hanging in the air. He said no – nothing EQP related starting now. Furthermore, he said he had told my bishop that he didn’t want me to serve in any callings requiring me to teach in any capacity and that I shouldn’t pray in church either.

Then he called my wife in and told me and her that he thought I was just being prideful and that was the cause of my faith crisis, and re-iterated that he thought this was clearly just the adversary trying to destroy my family.

Ouch!!! To me, this underscores the importance of not sharing such things with local leaders. See what they do? They make assumptions. As cousnelor and judge, you risk being subject to discipline which you appear to have received. Not even allowing you to correlate with the new EQP is an issue as well — it is very exclusionary.

In this case, he blamed the “victim” of faith crisis. He blamed it on pride — what a simplistic way to interpret your faith crisis. Has he read Elder U’s talk that it’s “not that simple??”. He didn’t try to help you did he? Did he try to give you suggestions about how to proceed to overcome this rough spot? Or did he go straight to punishment? Were there any expressions of kindness or love? Did you leave feeling supported in your faith crisis??? Did he consider how such a punitive approach to a FC might impact your wife and the rest of the family???

If not, this, along with his punishing methodology, shows the conditional nature of love in the church — when someone comes with a sincere faith crisis, the love disappears when certain leaders are involved….and it’s not the kind of church that inspires me. I think he should have released you because you asked, and then talked a little bit about with you regarding your hopes for the testimony and future in the church. Given some counsel about how to get your testimony back, and reached out with kindness. I would have done my homework to see if you had been teaching falsehoods or apostate ideas in meetings, and if you hadn’t I would NOT have limited your teaching and prayer opportunities.

I would have your Bishop watch you in case you started trying to “take people with you”, but would have encouraged him to meet with you as often as you both agree is necessary to help you. The key to the 99 is the 1.

Did he take your TR? Was there a timeline given or next steps shared regarding restoration of your teaching and praying privileges if necessary? Terribly handled in my view.

In the short term I guess that means

a) you don’t have to do home teaching

b) you don’t have to face your crisis in a teaching situation

c) no more heavy duty callings to absorb your time.

d) You can still serve in non-teaching positions, which isn’t a bad thing.

I personally don’t see this as bad, but your loss of cruising range locally bothers me.

I had a similar meeting with a BP. I focused on weariness and commitment problems as opposed to faith issues (mine are largely commitment problems). At the end he said he’d keep at me, and that he wanted to get me into administration again….a much more free outcome, and I left feeling supported as a person. I have this feeling that if I went into his office and said I’d overcome my weariness he’d have me in some sort of leadership position again….and that’s liberating to know you have flexibility in all aspects of your life.

The good news is that as leaders move on, so does their memory of members’ backgrounds if they were not high profile. Other than records for disciplinary councils, no records are kept that I’m aware of regarding informal kinds of restrictions such as these.

I’m sorry this happened to you. Know that there are others here who have had similar things happen to them. Truthfully it’s hard not to say “We told you so” because some of us did tell you so – but that doesn’t mean I can’t mourn with you. It really does sound like you were placed on an informal probation, even he did not verbalize it that way.

So, I’m not so concerned with the SP at this point because he’s going to do what he’s going to do and none of us can change that. I am concerned about you. You are welcome to come and appropriately vent. I’m glad this has not distraught you.

(Re: records. Some bishops and SPs do keep records of interactions they have with members in files in their offices. These are sometimes shared with their replacements.)

Part of the reason I am not terribly upset by this interaction was the tone overall was very loving, even if the message was mixed. SD, he tried to help.

I am glad he was kind about it. Many are not that way. Some get offended and write you off!

I have a friend who said “I don’t know why you even bother to go to church anymore. Why don’t you just get your name removed??”. I explained the good I was doing, the impact on my family of an active father, etcetera, and he replied “there might be some good coming of it, but if you don’t believe it anymore then I don’t see the point of your even being involved anymore” or something like that. Totally a write off, laced with some chastisement about “how I talk about the The Lord’s Church”. I’ve seen that before, or back-room talk among the leaders about how terrible you are when you’re not fully on the wagon.

I would have rathered he just released you and left it at that, and put you on watch through your Bishop. I am glad you are kind of at peace with what he did, as it does allow you to be free to pursue your faith transition as you see fit, albeit within greater restraints than in the past.

I am also glad you don’t seem to appear bitter about it either. Do you feel you can trust PH leaders in the future to help you with faith crises?

My heart sank when I read your post.

This becomes part of the journey to see the limitations of church and leaders and how they choose to handle it, but it doesn’t necessarily change the course, and continues to test your patience in how you respond. All I can say is that in time, things can settle down. It is what it is, and others judge, and that continues to help you learn to let go of focusing on what others think. The journey can become a deeply personal one.

And it seemed right to be released…so you were on track with that.

Hang in there buddy.

There are good things ahead.

Do you feel you can trust PH leaders in the future to help you with faith crises?

SD, for me it’s not so much about whether or not I can trust PH leaders. I look at PH leaders as I look at all members of the church – just regular people each on their own journey. Some PH leaders obviously have a better grasp of some of the nuances of the faith, and others are still very much black and white, “the Church is the only true Church upon the face of the whole earth” types of people. For those with a rigid stage 3 of faith, I think it must be very hard to even conceive of any legitimate reason why a person would have doubts other than fault lying somehow with the person.

So I guess I don’t feel I have a need to be able to trust PH leaders anymore than I have a need to trust any member of the Church. And with friends like the ones here on StayLDS, who needs PH leaders to help navigate a faith crisis anyway? 😆

DT, I’m sorry for what you’re going through. You seemed to handle it well. My concern is for your Wife & family.

In a TR interview, the SP expects members to be open & forthright. For what purpose? I answer all questions either

yes or no. I give no explanations, additions, questions or qualifications. The more I think about this, the angrier I’ll get.

I commend you for keeping your cool. You’re a good person & you deserve to be treated better than this.

You are very kind. I would be raging. I know most members are stage 3ers, but still some compassion would be nice. Since you are being courteous, I will be pissed as he#% for you. That should balance the universe somewhat.

Sincerely, I am sorry. Very sorry. Cyber hugs to you and your wife.