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My wife was sick this morning, and we overslept, so I ended up going to church late. We had only one hour there. I want to say how incredibly manageable it was. My son and I attended priesthood meeting only, but it was just about right, if not a bit short. But OK. I had the opportunity to participate in a discussion about the value of work and self-reliance, and had a spiritual experience as I shared a few insights. I wish our meetings were about an hour to two hours long tops ever week.
Shorten sacrament meeting to calls/releases/announcements/sacrament, a sacrament hymn, and then wrap it up. One way talks are a thing of the past in our interactive world. This would shorten sacrament meeting to about 20 minutes. Split the rest of the time between priesthood and sunday school, and leave it at that.
Thoughts?
Some of the best moments I have in church are listening to people speak about topics that are appropriate for Sacrament Merting. (The opposite also is true.) I would miss those opportunities – and Inknow how important they are for many people’s who prepare them. I am fine with new ways to handle the other Sunday time, including ways to shorten to two hours total, but I wouldn’t touch Sacrament Meeting time length (except to enforce it).
Old Timer wrote:
Some of the best moments I have in church are listening to people speak about topics that are appropriate for Sacrament Meeting. (The opposite also is true.) I would miss those opportunities – and I know how important they are for many people’s who prepare them.I am fine with new ways to handle the other Sunday time, including ways to shorten to two hours total, but I wouldn’t touch Sacrament Meeting time length (except to enforce it).
Agreed. There’s too much good that comes from sacrament meeting, to shorten it any further. But Sunday School and Priesthood/RS could easily be reduced down to one hour (if not combined).
dande48 wrote:
Old Timer wrote:
Some of the best moments I have in church are listening to people speak about topics that are appropriate for Sacrament Merting. (The opposite also is true.) I would miss those opportunities – and Inknow how important they are for many people’s who prepare them.I am fine with new ways to handle the other Sunday time, including ways to shorten to two hours total, but I wouldn’t touch Sacrament Meeting time length (except to enforce it).
Agreed. There’s too much good that comes from sacrament meeting, to shorten it any further. But Sunday School and Priesthood/RS could easily be reduced down to one hour (if not combined).
I agree with this… take it off their time not SM.
The flipside of this is that I barely got to know anyone at the old churches I used to go to which only lasted an hour or so. I’m all for shortening the block. I wouldn’t cut the talks totally from SM, though. I do “feel the Spirit” more often in SM than in other meetings, and like others have said when the talks are done properly (appropriate topics and Christ focused) I find value in them. I agree the sacrament should be the focus of our worship, but I think talks can enhance that. I wouldn’t mind there being just a couple shorter talks (perhaps 10 minutes each), perhaps shortening the meeting to about 45-50 minutes. I’d also be fine with a 30-40 minute SS as “gospel instruction” and a shorter priesthood/RS time where we mostly did “business.” Side note, I wouldn’t mind eliminating testimony meeting. A few weeks ago the subject of socialization came up in priesthood. A couple guys mentioned now other churches they have been to offer a “coffee hour” after church and the value they see in that for having time to socialize and get to know each other. The idea was actually gaining some traction when someone threw out something like ‘”Yeah, but those people haven’t been in church for three hours already.” End of conversation. FWIW, we do linger longer once a month – I generally try to avoid it but DW loves it.
SamBee wrote:
The flipside of this is that I barely got to know anyone at the old churches I used to go to which only lasted an hour or so.
I don’t get to know anyone in our Ward unless three is a Meet and Greet, or I end up working alongside them in a calling.
At one time someone was saying in our Stake the church was moving toward no social activities and it would be all work. Sounds like conjecture now, but it shows how the leaders don’t always see the value of building community.
I think we miss that point of it a lot. We don’t value our people for who they are and to build a community — we focus on the work (HT, VT), and have systemized service that doesn’t seem intrinsic — more duty bound. Some wards have achieved that kind of community, but it has been rare in my experience.
And of course, if we reach out to people and they decide not to engage with the work, we tend to drop them. I think there is a definite need for a focus on community that transcends TR’s, your personal contribution, etcetera…
I agree, SD, I think some wards/stakes are much better at it than others. Our ward is small, activities seem to be well attended. Some people really need activities, others couldn’t care less, and some are in between. I lean couldn’t care less and I don’t attend all activities, but the Memorial Day picnic and Christmas party are OK and I have gone to some other activities (I did not go when I was inactive). I recognize some of the people at the activities would rather be somewhere else and are only there because their spouse (usually wife) dragged them while others are right in the thick of it wondering how anyone could possibly not have a good time. Like on Sunday, I gravitate toward those I like and avoid those I don’t care much for while attempting to get to know some people I don’t know very well (so I know whether or not to avoid them in the future). Overall I see the value in activities and “fellowshipping.” Fortunately I have never heard the idea of all work and no play here (except among the missionaries who are a different thing altogether).
DarkJedi wrote:
Overall I see the value in activities and “fellowshipping.” Fortunately I have never heard the idea of all work and no play here (except among the missionaries who are a different thing altogether).
I think it was local doctrine, or perhaps a local leader who saw money spent on food for ward parties and made that comment….big mistake if they go in that direction.
SilentDawning wrote:
DarkJedi wrote:
Overall I see the value in activities and “fellowshipping.” Fortunately I have never heard the idea of all work and no play here (except among the missionaries who are a different thing altogether).
I think it was local doctrine, or perhaps a local leader who saw money spent on food for ward parties and made that comment….big mistake if they go in that direction.
I do agree it would be a mistake.
I know of a neighboring ward that changed their Christmas party from a dinner to refreshments because some people were upset that it was the only thing some inactives came to and thought they only came for the free dinner. I think so what if they come for a free dinner? They must see some value in coming. I don’t care if a couple bucks of “my” tithing is spent feeding someone besides me and my friends. And they clearly don’t know that many actives also don’t pay tithing.
The social side is the best thing in our church has… 
SamBee wrote:
The social side is the best thing in our church has…
When it works, I agree. I have been in wards where they were there for the work and not the interpersonal friendships. I have also been in wards where, when you go to a ward party, and work the room, everyone sits there like a bump on a log. CAn’t drag a conversation out of them if you paid them. So I end up asking people questions about themselves and trying to keep a convo going until I have to move on — outta ideas.
So, I don’t get sociality there anymore. But I would welcome it if it happened upon my life again. To truly enjoy the social side, I feel there has to be some kind of common ground or connection that makes it inherently interesting. Otherwise, I am simply there for others, and while that is great, I find it is draining. And I feel that I should be investing my time in something more valuable than just making conversation…
My preference: 40min Sacrament meeting for the sacrament, hymns/musical numbers, one short 5min talk, one sermon by someone assigned.
10min hallway socializing to get to next class
40min Combined sunday school/Priesthood/RS + Primary + Youth classes
Optional 30min afterwards to stay and mingle and visit with donuts and milk/juice for those who want to stay and talk about calendar events and announcements and socialize and meet new people, allow missionaries to teach people who want to hear more. Let the introverts go home with more peace, and let the extroverts have their time to do their thing, and let the poor toddlers and high priests get out of there and go nap.
That’s all we need weekly. That would reduce the boredom factor significantly since we waste so much time. Sometimes less is more.
SD wrote:My wife was sick this morning, and we overslept, so I ended up going to church late. We had only one hour there.
I want to say how incredibly manageable it was. My son and I attended priesthood meeting only, but it was just about right
I have those feelings…which is why periodically we only stay for sac meeting and then go home. It helps reduce the drudgery when you skip 2nd or 3rd hour periodically.
A thread from a few (4.5) years ago dealing with stale sacrament meetings: As I have mentioned, I have come out to my wife on my disbelief, but only about 2 others in the ward and they are also about where I am. But I am still going to church weekly, but I find it frustrating. I have found that I can tolerate much better if I go to SM, and then sometimes skip out on some of the other meetings. This last week I went to Gospel Doctrine (thinking it was lesson 24 about “why people leave the church” but it wasn’t the lesson in our ward) and then I talked to a young man I have known for a more than a decade for about 30 minutes in the hall, then caught the last few minutes of HPG meeting. On occasion I have left to go home for SS then come back.
It does make it a bit more tolerable. I know this is nothing earth shattering, but sharing that it has helped.
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