- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
How do those that want to stay in the church deal with all the issues ??? Just stick your head in the sand ??? I would really like to know how others do it because I am amazed that it can actually happen (deal with it that is ). Like to hear from many of you please. Thanks.
This is going to sound like an unfair answer, but the best way to answer your question is for you to take time and read the board. Pick topics that are on the top of your list. Search for previous conversations on that topic – then read. Yes it’s tedious but it is your best way to learn how people who stay do it. Also not everyone here has stayed. We have many who don’t stay but whose families and friends are members and they come here to help them keep those connections.
For me, my head isn’t in the sand. It’s clearer now than it was before. I also don’t filter. I chose. If information doesn’t apply to me or set well with me, I let the other person have their belief and I keep mine. I used to imagine I would change the church, but I won’t. I do affect my ward and such. I try to build a stronger, gospel sustaining ward in my own way. I am fortunate at this time that my calling is in harmony with my deepest gospel desires.
It’s taken years to get here. Don’t cheat yourself and try to find a fast answer. You deny the Universe it’s work with you when you do that. Our little corner of the world is full of atheists, agnostics, and deists. We also have broad believers. No sand hiders here.
All Mormons are cafeteria Mormons on certain points. Some with diet Coke, some with wearing garments–I just happen to have some different beliefs about the scriptures. Once again, I’m appalled at Abraham for trying to kill his son, and him sending Hagar out in the wilderness to die. Circumcision was a pagan practice long before Abraham. I reject these things as God-Inspired. I feel a bit like creating a Thomas Jefferson Bible where I throw out the stuff I don’t like and keep the stuff I do. I know that’s heretical, but it’s my life, my belief system, and I’ve got free agency to believe as I choose. It’s good not to be trammeled, as Joseph Smith would say. If polygamy stinks to high heaven, abandon it like the CoC. A prophet is only a prophet when he is speaking as a prophet, and the CoC has rejected lots of Joseph’s revelations and kept others. It’s not unprecedented, although I freely admit that people in the LDS pews would think my views were heretical, hence the name. But I have free agency to believe what I want, and I’m exercising it. I reject the notion that “it’s all true or it’s all false.” Nothing in life is that simple, so why follow that piece of bad advice?
Let’s not forget that the original Declaration on Marriage (section 101) was de-canonized in favor of adding 132. The Lectures on Faith were decanonized. Brigham Young refused to canonize the Book of Abraham–that wasn’t canonized until after his death. The CoC never canonized 132, Lectures on Faith, Abraham, and de-canonized Baptism for the Dead. Use your free agency. Hold fast to that which is good. Jettison the rest. You don’t see most Christians saying “Women should be silent in church”, or justifying slavery or polygamy even though those are canonized in the Bible. You don’t see people selling daughters for marriage, but the Law of Moses regulates lots of things. Scriptures change. You have your free agency. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or praiseworthy, seek after those things. But don’t pierce your slave’s ear to show he’s yours forever, even though that’s biblical. Slavery is just plain crap, and not God inspired at all.
It’s your belief system. Be responsible for it.
There are many reasons people choose to stay. Some stay for personal reasons that are independent of family relations. Others stay primarily for family relationships and for others it’s a combination of the two. When someone looks seriously at the issues in the church, their faith rarely remains the same. Something changes, the lens through which you see the world is altered. This is not unique to Mormonism – it’s a part of human developmet. As faith progresses from a Fowler stage 2 or 3 to something beyond, faith is no longer constrained to seeing things as black or white, as true or false.
Those who are unable to move beyond a stage 3 usually can’t remain in the church. They tend to leave and become vocal adversaries. They are still in the stage of development where things are true or false and if the church isn’t true, then it must be false. But for those who deepen their faith along their journey, the world becomes vastly more complex and beautiful and just because not everything in the church is literally true, it doesn’t make the church as a whole unhelpful or false.
Some develop nuanced or metaphorical beliefs where many things are taken non-literally, but used for their symbolism and as agents of motivational growth. For others, they pick and choose what they want to accept and apply in their life.
As for myself, I am openly agnostic on this thread and I primarily stay for family reasons and to support my wife. But while I am staying, I want my church experience to be a fulfilling experience for me. I have chosen Mormonism to be my stage where I can develop spiritually, even as I shed many of my literal beliefs. Should that stage prove to be harmful to my growth, I would have to find a new venue, which could be anything from another organized group that also has beliefs I don’t accept literally to the great out doors.
But no one hides their head in the sand. Life is complicated. Faith is complicated. Spirituality is complicated. And when you come to see that complexity as beautiful, it changes the way you see the church too. One could apply the same scholarly rigor that they apply to mormonism to christianity. They might find that the evidence for a divine son of God on earth is very weak, but that the symbolism is still very beautiful. One could apply the rigor to the idea of a deity itself. In the end, everyone is backed to the wall of faith and must choose which direction they will proceed.
It isn’t always easy either. That’s why we have a community like this. Many of us are made to feel like fringe members for having unorthodox beliefs. But we continue to hope that the church will continue to grow and expand and become more inclusive and create a space where those with different beliefs can come together to form a community that is centered on Christ-like love and service, even if not all the members of that community believe he was divine or even existed.
Rebel, For me, it works, because I have stopped trying to find the “One True Church”. I have come to realize that for me, I don’t feel driven by external truths (BofM, heaven/hell, existence of God), but by internal truths (what kind of person I am, the things I love and value, my association with family and friends). The Church is helpful to me with my internal truths; yet, it doesn’t own them, I do. The “truthfulness” of the Church doesn’t have anything to do with my connection with it, because I’m not looking for external truth.
I hope to hear more from you, but whether you stay or go with regard to the Church (and/or this site), I wish you well and hope you find something that works for you.
mormonheretic, it’s nice to hear from you. It’s been a while.
Hey Rebel, For me, it was important to get out of the “all-or-nothing” mentality. Among members of the Church, how many times have you heard “How can you be a member of the Church, and support gay marriage?” or “How can you be a member of the Church, and support Donald Trump?”. Personally, I’ve got as strong opinions as anyone on Trump and gay marriage; With a lot of people, we’re just not going to see eye to eye. And that’s OK!
You’re going to find issues everywhere. If you focus on the more difficult parts, you’re going to wind up bitter w/ frequent headaches. Life’s a mess; always has been, always will be. Its really important to focus on all the good in the Church, and what you have in common with the membership. Find things to be grateful for.
Lemony Snicket wrote:“People aren’t either wicked or noble. They’re like chef’s salads, with good things and bad things chopped and mixed together in a vinaigrette of confusion and conflict.”
No offense taken, but my head is definitely not in the sand. I agree with what others here have said. As Dande said, letting go the “all or nothing” mentality was key to me, as was separating the gospel and the church. They are not one-in-the same, although many members seem to conflate them. Instead of my head being in the sand, I like to think I am planted in the sand:
Quote:It’s natural to have questions—the acorn of honest inquiry has often sprouted and matured into a great oak of understanding. There are few members of the Church who, at one time or another, have not wrestled with serious or sensitive questions. One of the purposes of the Church is to nurture and cultivate the seed of faith—even in the sometimes sandy soil of doubt and uncertainty.
(Uchtdorf, Oct. 2013)
Indeed, as Mom3 said, my understanding and faith are greater than they ever were before my faith crisis and transition.
I would repeat everything that has already been said. It’s not likely that somebody will stay if they can’t break away from the mentality that they have to fit the mormon mold. You can see a common thread in the responses that have been written. The people who stay are those who learn to pick up the reins and actively figure out what they believe, rather than allowing the church to tell them what they believe. For me, it helped to sit down and write my own Articles of Faith, with “I believe…” statements, rather than “we believe…”. Some of them are word for word the same as the original Articles of Faith, and some are very very different. I get to decide what I believe. You get to decide what you believe. I didn’t attend SS for a long time, because the comments and discussion would drive me crazy, and I would have to bite my tongue the whole time. I am at a point now, that I can go to SS each week and it doesn’t bother me, because I’ve embraced the fact that those people are sharing what they believe, but I don’t have to agree with them. They’re just sharing their own beliefs. Sometimes it can be uncomfortable, but I’d rather be sitting next to my wife feeling uncomfortable in SS, than sitting in hall or at home without her. Decide what you believe and embrace that. You don’t have to agree with everything (or anything) that you hear at church. Personally, I’m only on board with about 10% of what is taught at church, but I can still find some value in the experience.
Great responses by everyone above. It shows there are lots of tactics and justifications and intelligent answers. One exercise I also like to do, Rebel, is to try to be objective about the topic by asking the same question to the opposite answer or group. And learn from that.
Seriously…for those who leave the church and do NOT choose stay, how are they so sure they are right and everyone else has their head in the sand?
When I do that…I typically agree with both answers from both sides, or at least can find some things to agree with in each, and disagree with in each.
Because it is way too complex for it to be binary and one group is right and one group is off their rockers. It’s just not like that.
As MH said, you own your own set of beliefs. It’s all part of the process.
Head in the sand? I am not sure exactly what this looks like. Is it willful ignorance where questions are not asked if we might not like the answers? Is it shelving certain topics that don’t make sense for re-examination at a later date? not sure. I am a story teller. I love to see how “based on a true story” movies both include and diverge from the historical facts.
Religion seems to me to be humanity’s attempt to tell it’s own story “based on true history”. It do not feel that I need to hide my head in the sand to find beauty, inspiration, and meaning in the story.
I would say it is by doing exactly the opposite: by looking up more and trying to understand as charitably as possible when we look back and around. Looking up allows us to build our own personal faith; being as charitable as possible allows us to co-exist with people who, largely, are good people doing the best they can.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.