Free Will

I really love what Orson Scott Card said about free will, in Xenocide.

“Either we’re free or we’re not. Either the story’s true or it isn’t. The point is that we have to believe that it’s true in order to live as civilized human beings… Because if it’s a lie, why should we bother to live as civilized human beings? Because the species has a better chance to survive if we do. Because our genes require us to believe the story in order to enhance our ability to pass those genes on for many generations in the future. Because anybody who doesn’t believe the story begins to act in unproductive, uncooperative ways, and eventually the community, the herd, will reject him and his opportunities for reproduction will be diminished—-for instance, he’ll be put in jail—-and the genes leading to his unbelieving behavior will eventually be extinguished.”

On the one hand, the gospel clearly admits that our actions can effect and influence others, sometimes greatly. This is carried to the extent that if a prophet or missionary doesn’t do their best, the sins and blood of those they taught would be upon their heads (see Jacob 1:19). Same is said of parents who don’t dilligently teach their children. At the same time, we believe than mankind will be punished for their own sins, and be made accountable for their own decisions. When looking outward, it is clear that we should be aware of our influence. For ourselves, we must take responsibility for what we do.

As paradoxal as it sounds, seeing reality as reality truly is, isn’t always genetically advantageous. What matters most, biologically speaking, is the ability to survive long enough to reprocude, and then assist our offspring in their survival and reproduction. If we can still do this with a warped sense of reality, or sometimes even better, the traits get passed on to the next generation. Logically, I think the evidence is against free will. We have a plethera of influences on our decisions, from our genetic make up, to our environment, to past experiences (some of which we can’t even remember), to our current circumstances… an infinite number of influences upon what we call “free will”. And if these influneces to not cause our decision, then what caused it? Randomness? The strength of Spirit to which God gave us? And in the end, if God gave us our free will, and placed us in our particular circumstances, knowing exactly what we are going to do… isn’t he ultimately responsible?

But in the end, I remain fully believing in free will. Because God made me.

And in the end, if God gave us our free will, and placed us in our particular circumstances, knowing exactly what we are going to do… isn’t he ultimately responsible?

This is why I don’t believe that God can see the future- at least not in the strictest sense. He knows us really really well and is really good at predicting what we will do, but aside from that, I think he sees the future more as an infinite set of detailed possibilities, some more likely than others- perhaps something like a quantum superstate of the future that collapses into one state as time progresses.

If God knew the future perfectly and we didn’t truly have free will, he would set up all the initial conditions just right so that everyone would make it back to him by their own “choice”. He would not settle for the suboptimal solution that is mortality. If he did, he would be an arbitrary God who decides who is saved based on no real reason. I reject any God who is arbitrary.

You see, our theology, unlike most faiths, has absolutely no requirement that God be omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent (in fact, we outright reject omnipresence in our doctrine). He is our Heavenly Father and He is good beyond all earthly measure and unfathomably powerful and intelligent, but not necessarily unlimited.

You see, our theology, unlike most faiths, has absolutely no requirement that God be omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent (in fact, we outright reject omnipresence in our doctrine). He is our Heavenly Father and He is good beyond all earthly measure and unfathomably powerful and intelligent, but not necessarily unlimited.

I’d have to disagree with you on this. The Church has anthropomorphized God quite a bit, but the LDS scriptures testify very strongly that God is all-knowing and all-powerful; past, present, and future are continually before him. He comprehends and knows all things, and there is not anything save God knows it. (see 2Ne 9:20, 2Ne 9:24, Alma 26:35, D&C 38:2, D&C 130:7)

That’s not saying you have to believe it. But it is quite strongly rooted in our doctrine.

Yeah, I’m not sure there is actual doctrine about omnipotence, omniscience, or omnipresence but I think most members believe God is all of those things (omnipresence through the Holy Ghost). Likewise I’m not saying I believe it but it does seem to be commonly believed and taught, and I think most orthodox members would take issue with the idea God has limitations.

I agree with that, Beefster. I do believe God may be limited in some sense, even if the limitations are self imposed (or imposed by God’s God if you believe in that sort of thing). It is also possible God is very limited and not omnipotent, but that omnipotence is a creation of men (philosophies mingled with scripture as it were). This point of God’s omniscience and omnipotence was a big part of my faith crisis and it’s why I subscribe to the idea of a deist God. Most of those questions just go away if the deists are right, and objectively it does seem to make some sense that they are.

I would agree that the LDS version of God includes omnipotence. I don’t similarly believe, but that’s how I learned it growing up. Even if God knows us very, very well so that he can predict (nearly) exactly what we’re going to do, isn’t that *practically* the same thing? At best it would be an elaborate set up of checkpoints to see if we can “make it” (which I’m not sure how growth oriented that would actually be – it sorta sounds like the American educational system which doesn’t necessarily produce critical thinkers or tinkerers), at worst it seems like some version of a Battle Royale. Also, if God knew us so well before and could predict our actions and growth, it seems like we’re the beneficiaries of receiving salvation, only to repeat the same pattern-prediction eternity for our progeny…which doesn’t sound interesting or like eternal progression at all. Promotion to middle-management for one, please?

Personally, I have no idea how much human nature influences me individually, nor others. I have seen some of the most astounding self-awareness in nursing school at an AA meeting, and I have encountered some profound ignorance at church. What I’m trying to do now is enjoy my life, reduce harm to others, create something meaningful for myself and those around me, and come closer to what seems to me to be the truth.

Also, Alma 42:22 explicitly states that God has limitations:

But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

At least one other person, whether Joseph Smith or the author of Alma 42, thought God isn’t all powerful.