Not paying tithing consequences?

The problem with just avoiding tithing settlement is he wouldn’t be able to do that. Last year, we were super busy and didn’t sign up for tithing settlement and the bishop pulled me out of sunday school and surprised me with tithing settlement. So I have a feeling my husband wouldn’t be able to avoid it. And we aren’t currently giving our money to any good causes so he wouldn’t be able to justify giving his money to another good cause. So if he said he was a full tithe payer, it would be a blatant lie. Idk how comfortable he would be with that.

My husband would probably be considered a NOM (New Order Mormon, or a more nuanced believer who is trying to help the church for the better). He is highly considering paying no more tithing because he doesn’t feel he can trust the church with our money. I’m totally on board with that. The problem is he is still active and he has a calling he loves. He doesn’t care if he loses his temple recommend as the temple isn’t important to him, but I’m wondering if any of you have experience with telling your bishop you aren’t a full tithe payer at tithing settlement? He has been trying to figure out what he should say when that comes up but hasn’t figured it out. So have any of you told your bishop you weren’t a full tithe payer? Have you told them you plan to not pay tithing anymore? What happened? Could there be any consequences other than losing a temple recommend and a lecture?

First of all, don’t feel you have to broadcast your tithing or other church decisions to the local leadership. It’s between you, your family and God.

I do exactly what your husband wants to do. Here is my strategy:

a) Don’t attend Tithing Settlement

They know whether you pay or not by the ward financial records. If you pay directly to Salt Lake they might not know, but I think that is an exception. They definitely know if you renewed your temple recommend based on Ward records, so there is no need to tell them explicitly after the recommend expires, or your stop paying for a while. That is simply putting yourself in the very awkward position most of us would like to avoid. And you can end up saying things that incriminate you. In my experience, no one comes after you.

b) Be Vague but hopeful about tithing.

We had a SP come to our house with his exec sec a while back. I bit my tongue wanting to say “An Apostle is visiting our Stake in a couple weeks — right???” This is because I have seen high stake leaders always go out and look like they are ministering by visiting less active of “on the edge” families right before a GA comes down. No GA, no visits, most of the time. But I bit my tongue. He asked why we don’t have TR’s.

What I did ACTUALLY say?

“TR’s are something we don’t feel passionate about right now ” He asked if we would like to get one in the future. I reply “Given my testimony and commitment to activity in the church, eventually I would like to feel passionate about a TR again. But not for the time being”. If he asks what are your concerns about it???

“I have been in the church a long, long time. I don’t think a conversation about reasons will be productive. You and I both know all the reasons we hear at church for paying tithing, and all the ways people overcome reasons people don’t pay. So I don’t see the point of reviewing it all.”

One Bishop kept at me about it, so finally I sat him down with a brief, written history of my church experience. There were a lot of traumatic experiences, briefly bullet pointed. It took him 5 minutes to read it. I ended by saying I was weary, that I lacked passion right now, and that the LDS experience wasn’t making me happy. But I wanted to stay engaged due to testimony reasons, but that I had dedicated my time to other humanitarian pursuits that have made me happy — very happy. But that I would like to serve in the church in hopes of rekindling my passion.

Then I would bring the meeting to a “soft landing”….this is where we thanked the SP and his Exec Sec for coming over, for the concern they were showing and suggested a prayer. Thanks the Bishop for his concern etcetera and his sacrifice, and that it shows he’s a caring Bishop.

You have to be faithful, positive, and if you can, be spiritual. While being vague about your real reasons that could be construed as apostate. If you share the negative ones, there is a risk you are on restrictions of some kind. You don’t want that — as it only pushes you further away.

Consequences

For me? None — other than no one considers you for high profile callings. You get considered for lightweight ones that don’t require a TR.

Priesthood leaders don’t seem to know what to do with you. Some are awkward about it, some just accept you. Just don’t go into detail locally. Keep your reasons close to the vest.

There is a risk that if you someday want a TR, (such as a child getting married, needed to be ordained to a Melchizedek Priesthood Office) and you show up asking for a TR, they might not want to give it to you right away. Or make you jump through hoops you don’t want to jump through.

The other consequence that you MUST be on guard about is how it changes you. I have grown very comfortable in my own skin. So I have to guard against being too open about the harder reasons I’m not full-on in the church anymore. Very careful. Never let your guard down locally, ever, even though you get comfortable.

Finally, Priesthood leaders may pump you, his wife, for information about his reasons. I appreciate my wife telling them only as much as I authorize, and normally saying “check with SD, since its about him”.

Temple Recommend are required for certain callings. Additionally some ward and stake leaders add a few more to the list like “the entire YM/YW leadership”, etc. So I get it.

I am with Joni

I’m really concerned that your bishop pulled you out of class for a drive-by tithing settlement. That seems like a pretty major overstepping of boundaries to me.

It’s encouraged but not required.

You could also pay normal for the next 2 months. Then drop back after settlement. They don’t look at your employment numbers. The other option is to “tithe” to humanitarian funds. It’s still donations and hurts the heart a bit less.

The Bishop has to make a best guess for everyone who doesn’t declare somehow. Most don’t want that responsibility, so they do their best to hear it from the members themselves. It’s not more complicated than that.

Who says how the church uses the money has anything whatsoever to do with blessings you may or may not receive. I look at it like this, and understand i have struggled and continued to struggle with tithing my entire life, even currently for the last six months i have not paid any tithing or kept track of money so that i might pay tithing down the road. However i think i’m starting to learn more about tithing and am considering paying a full tithe again…

Think of it like this: its a sacrifice. Sacrifices change you for the better.

I will add that my personal opinion about how the church uses tithing money. The church is a large organization. Within large organazations inefficiency is a growing problem just by innate and natural internal forces… The church affairs are run by people, people are irrational, lazy, and lack understanding by nature… these forces might naturally compound in ways that the church does not use tithing money perfectly as christ would. It is still my opinion that the church uses tithing money more efficiently to bless the lives of the members than any other human organization.

If you disagree with that statement, is it at all possible, that something you see as wasteful or pointless, has a point or might be able to bless the lives of someone in a way you hadn’t considered?

Example, i don’t currently understand exactly why the church needs to spend so much money making our temples beautiful and lavish. That does not mean i assume its a foolish and poor waste of money. I realize and trust that perhaps i simply need to learn more about temples.

Maybe i’m naive, but its where my mind is at right now.

I stopped paying tithing when we our daughter was stillborn and my FC began. Probably six months later our bishop said that he sympathized with my struggles as a person and as a friend, but as a church administrator he was obligated to confiscate my temple recommend.

Since then we have moved to another state. Every time I am in Bishop’s office the tithing subject comes up. My bishop knows my story. He knows that my expectations were crushed and he is willing to accept that my expectations were built up by promises and interpretations of church members.

Do not get into details of doubt.

Focus on belief and faith that you do have (for example the atonement is nothing short of beautiful. The plan of salvation is so expansive – I hope and am willing to cannel my hope into faith – that it is true).

Do not make definitive declarations/ keep door open to change of mind in future. We are all works in progress. The bishop may need to hold out hope that you will come around in the future.

Do not blame the church. In my own conversation, I showed my bishop a recent church manual that said that both spiritual and temporal blessings would result from tithing payment. He suddenly backpedaled and said that blessings certainly could result from tithing payment. I realized that I had crossed a line and that my good hearted bishop could not bring himself to say the publication was in error or had over reached in its promises.

Do not argue or contradict. The bishop will probably use a number of arguments to motivate you to pay. Examples include that you covenanted to pay, or this is one of the few commandments that you can be mathematically perfect at, or that your spouse secretly yearns for you to take them back to the temple. You may find that these arguments do not work for you. Resist the temptation to argue. Better to come back to something like, “Be that as it may, I need time to work through my faith at my own pace. I love the ward. I love my calling. I hope I can work through these things while staying connected and serving in the church.”

More examples here:

http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4879&p=73296#p73296

It can sometimes be helpful to simply the issue and compartmentalize some things.

For example, TR includes tithing. Because of that, if you want a temple recommend, you pay tithing. If you don’t care about the TR, don’t need to pay tithing.

From there…everything can get more complicated as you see it is of value to do so. Others above have shared what they do around paying, what is considered paying, what we feel we need to do to answer the question in interviews certain ways and feel honest in doing so, or if they give themselves permission to not pay it and be fine with what comes of that.

There can be issues around “trusting” the church with the money and how they spend it and what they do with it and what you want it to be used for.

All of that is valid. It can even be a good thing to work through such thoughts and feelings…and I believe that is the purpose of tithing and religion…how you spiritually process it and make it something of meaning in your life. There is a spiritual lesson for all temporal commandments.

But at the base level…you either pay it (however you define that) or you don’t (for whatever reason you want).

There is lots of latitude for figuring that out for your family. The only consequences will come by how you define it, and how you act according to your definitions. There are real blessings for those who do that.

Don’t get caught up in how bishops do or don’t do things…they will do their thing. You just make your choice, and move forward with it.

But you can’t wish for something without following the rule. If you want a TR, you pay for it.