Education Outside of Formal Study

Interesting.

And are you asking for something specifically for any of us to do to help you in your studies?

Amy — quick tip — I am posting in threaded discussions constantly as a university professor, and ending each post with a question is something I require from all my students. This is to keep the conversation going. I sometimes want to just share something here on StayLDS, but if I don’t ask a specific question, my post usually sits there without any responses. So, you might think of a question to ask at the end of your post to engage discussion. Although on this one, I would’ve posted readily with no question posted at all…and you’ll see why.

As an educator, I find the educational system with student evaluations tends to make it hard to induce real world learning into the classroom. Sure you can do cases, or use problems that mirror the real world, but in certain topics, like management, most of the books don’t even give you a lot of practical messy problems. I have to write my own. And most problems don’t scream at you “This is problem is solved using the material in CHAPTER 2 of my Human Resource Management text”. You have to link the problem you are facing, to the learning you have, and the link isn’t always clear. And students do not like problems they haven’t seen before — they get massively scared and sometimes even political if you ask messy problems that could affect their grade. They are willing to apply critical thinking processes, but do not want to deal with messy problems that defy the neat, tight theory that we read about in textbooks. So educators tend to simplify problems or narrow parameters to the point the realism is lost.

And as one professor told me “all we can do is teach general principles given the diversity of jobs our students will enter some day”. So after they graduate, they still don’t know a lot because they need training in their specific fields.

In the social sciences, it’s even trickier because humans are so complex, and behavior is influenced by so many variables. As someone once said “God left all the easy problems to the scientists”.

So, yes, education has really helped me, but it tended to be valuable only after I gained experience in the school of Hard Knocks so I could filter out the theory that doesn’t apply. And use the judgment that comes with age to determine which theory, which principles fit the situation. Not a lot of that gets taught in schools. I do teach my students to analyze situations through the lens of multiple theories, however. And out of each theory will often come a few gold nuggets that seem to apply — sometimes.

And then, there is a “learning to learn” component of education. I find that has helped me as much as the technical knowledge I’ve gained. When I need to learn something new — I do research — I go into ProQuest, or the online university libraries that I still have access to, and read all I can from scholarly journals, and sometimes non-scholarly ones. Through that process, you see themes and learn quickly. I have also learned to ask questions of “people in the know”. Everyone and their dog is willing to give you advice on matters with which they have no experience. But I have learned to ask people who have deep knowledge about the area I need expertise in.

As one of my professors said, it’s only after people get a PhD that they really know what they are talking about on unstructured problems. I don’t agree with that entirely (I think that particular professor was a bit of an arrogant person, for sure), but I agree that education takes time — a lot of time, before it seeps in. And it often means seeing the same material in different contexts before you “trust it”.

I am talking about unstructured problems though — education in how to do a computer program, how to design a database, etcetera provides structured problems you run into regularly in the real world. It is very valuable in that respect. I think it’s when you try to teach high level skills like judgment, management, and other disciplines that defy standard, structured problems, it gets really hard to impart that knowledge instantly — that knowledge only comes through blend of life experience, and conscious effort to apply the knowledge gained in school.

And here is another obstacle — people often learn material in a class and then forget to use it!!! They can’t see across disciplines. And even when you ask a question within a class, they give you their opinion without using course terminology, or applying course knowledge to solve the problem.

I could go on about how America could save millions on student loads and defaults by putting people through rigorous self-knowledge, personality and aptitude testing so they pick the right profession at the outset. But that is another story….

Context is everything. I looked up the talk where this quote comes from.

https://www.lds.org/liahona/2009/04/learning-and-latter-day-saints?lang=eng

Honestly, it seemed to me to be a hodge podge of education related topics. The theme, that which was repeated at the beginning and the end was the following:

Learning with the Spirit is not confined to classrooms or preparation for school examinations. It applies to everything we do in life and every place we do it—at home, at work, and at church.

An education is not limited to formal study. Lifelong learning can increase our ability to appreciate and relish the workings and beauty of the world around us.

The whole talk was a weird mix of platitudes. Learn about current events but do not be deceived by current trends. Choose a field of study based on you interest and aptitude – but not something without marketable value.

If you are a woman it gets even more confusing. Seek education – but not necessarily formal education. Seek marketable skills (not liberal arts) – but do not expect to use them (maybe as a plan . An education is an investment worth borrowing (to be repaid by increased earning potential) – but do not borrow so much that you might not cease work in order to be a stay-at-home mom. Seek experiences that broaden your horizons but do not delay marriage and children (even though these responsibilities will likely severely limit your availability for such experiences).

Ultimately, I feel that the talk is scattered and unfocused. It seems to be trying to be many different things to different audiences and this may be by design. I suppose that he has 4 main points. 1) formal education is good and necessary. 2) continued lifelong learning/interest/curiosity is also good. 3) Hold to the iron rod. Stay “worthy” to learn from the spirit. “continue our spiritual education by studying the scriptures and Church literature and by attending church and the temple.” 4) Ultimately, everything that we learn in this life (points 1, 2, and 3) funnel down to one purpose “to make us better parents and servants in the kingdom.”

Glad to hear it is going well.

What is keeping me sane in the class is that I review the information, think about it, apply my StayLDS (honest answers that keep me off the radar) approach while doing the coursework. As expected, there are a LOT of TBM responses to read/muddle through. It is almost a game to to blend in TBM-wise, while being honest. Actually, I feel I am learning just as much from the posts and responses here as I am in the actual gatherings and coursework. And there is value to be had in the coursework, but for me the greatest value is from the 69 bucks a credit university price tag at the end of the experience.

I love the part in bold. That is kind of how I look at my relationship with the church now. I prefer not to call it a game, but it does have some strategic components that I think some might call a “game”. Oddly, I’ve written, and then struck out the word game from many of my posts here since I do want to be sincere in my comments at church, and not appear to be conniving. But I get your use of the term. The leaders and TBM members do have perspectives, which if not managed, or strategically avoided, can do harm, a lot like experiences in a game….

If you have to write such answers that balance heteroxy and orthodoxy in your course, then it’s great practice for life in the church in general for the person who isn’t fully bought into the church culture and way of doing things.

Here are strategies:

!. Find something you agree with an state that. No problem there!

2. If you disagree, disagree with cultural values that are relatively minor and have no doctrinal basis.

3. Focus on quotes from GA’s that are not typical — Elder Wirthlin’s talk on weary people, Uchdorfts talk on less active people how its not always a simple as sin breeding doubt, etcetera. Read those and use them as answers — no one can argue with a contrarion quote by a respected GA…

Thanks SilentDawning!

I have been guided by the posts and comments here into following all those suggestions:)

The challenge I have at times is finding an acceptable unorthodox principle in each lesson – it can be done, but sometimes it is more challenging than other times.

That link is powerful, Ray – thank you! I will study it further and apply it in my studies:)