What if the world is not declining?

I have often wondered this. In many ways, society is far better than it was a couple hundred years ago.

I am not sure what to say about it, honestly — I would need to see research. We would have to identify what is considered progress, and what is considered atrophy.

If you look at the percentage of people turning to religion in society, I think it’s declining.

I am not sure what crime rates are doing, but they could be another source of information.

You could look at so many different things that point to “progress”.

Since the Mormons claim the world is getting worse and worse, I would be inclined to suggest this as a measure of the world’s progress

a) Belief in God

b) Belief in Jesus Christ

c) Pre-marital and extra-marital sex rates

d) Crime statistics (bodily injury and property damage/theft)

e) attendance at weekly church meetings

f) donations to charitable causes

You could also look at it internally, from a Mormon Perspective

g) the rate at which people join our church

h) % of endowed members with TR’s

i) Prospective elders who never get ordained

j) excommunications and discipline figures

What if, when we see the church as diverging from the world in its values, that’s because the church is falling behind the world? :think:

That’s what restorations are all about.

It seems that governments and corporations are getting more corrupt.

I certainly do not believe that this is the case. I feel that governments and corporations generally have become more transparent, more regulated, and more accountable to the people that they serve. (especially when we compare it to 200 or so years ago)

This to me seems so self-evident that I would find it interesting to hear arguments to the contrary.

Another great read: The Way We Never Were by Stephenie Coontz

The world is declining = erosion of patriarchy and white male privilege combined with a 24 hour news cycle and selective memory that results in an unwarranted nostalgia for the past. Who would really bring back legal marital rape, a murder rate 10x as high, or outhouses vs. toilets? Nobody in their right mind, that’s who.

On the other hand, a world with more community, a richer and more sincere culture and more sustainable lifestyle. It’s not all a one way truck.

The world is declining = erosion of patriarchy and white male privilege combined with a 24 hour news cycle and selective memory that results in an unwarranted nostalgia for the past. Who would really bring back legal marital rape, a murder rate 10x as high, or outhouses vs. toilets? Nobody in their right mind, that’s who.

I agree with Hawkgrrl. The world is overall a better place.

Don’t forget that up until 100 years ago for first world countries, the mortality rate for children and their mothers was a lot higher than it is now – childbirth was a perilous passage. The CDC reports that there were approx. 100 infant deaths and 7-9 mother deaths for every 1,000 live births.

Even today, the world factbook reports 112 infant deaths for every 1,000 live births within the first year in Afghanistan. In other words, a mortality rate around 10%. In contrast, the United States of America reports 5 deaths for every 1,000 live births within the first year, or about 1/2 a percent and is not one of the countries with the lowest infant mortality rate.

Sources:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4838a2.htm

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

Could it be a better place but less righteous and more secular?

I am not entirely certain that righteousness and secular-ness are opposite ends of a spectrum…

In fact, I personally believe that it is a better place based on my world-view. As a product of this generation, I did not die or be mortally maimed giving birth to my children. My children are highly unlikely to deal with debilitating diseases such as polio. I can own land and vote, and I am not considered property. I can be gainfully employed knowing that if I encounter discrimination in the work force, I have the liberty of seeking a different position, seeking justice, or doing nothing. My family is not on the brink of starvation, and has not faced malnutrition. I can read and write. I have plenty of pure water to drink, bathe, and sanitize my clothes in.

What is “better” to God?

I am still trying to figure this one out. Actually, I am working on the “which paths of the paths available to me is better for me in God’s eyes” step. I am also planning a FHE lesson where I take a list of generic things (Sunday Sabbath Observance, Forgiveness, White Shirts, etc.) and write them down on strips of paper. I will make other strips of paper with “Doctrine”, “Tradition/Culture” and “Enlightened Idea” and have every family member categorize the principle. Hopefully this will remind them that there is a fair degree of variance between people’s perspectives – and also help DH realize “It’s Not That Simple”. I have no intent to discredit or shatter DH’s world view – but I am hopeful that I can build a foundation so that when we ever talk about it, he is prepared for the conversation(s). I deliberately use the word “when” because my DH HATES it when I don’t tell him things. It makes him feel he can’t be trusted by me, and he feels it is creates a schism between us. While I feel that his worldview is valid for us, I see no reason not to make things as soft a landing as possible instead of a crashing worldview