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We are often taught that guilt exists to help us know when to repent. Shame is often lumped in with guilt when it’s taught from an orthodox perspective. I think the two are fundamentally different concepts, though they both relate to perceived wrongdoing. Guilt comes from within. Shame comes from others.
I think most of us would be in agreement when I say that shame does not come from God. It drives us to conform or appear to conform. Most often, the course of action is the latter, and thus we hide our problems instead of facing them.
Over the last few weeks, I’ve had this thought that maybe guilt is not from God either. I can feel guilty from doing things that have nothing to do with God’s commandments, for instance when I ignore my dieting plans. Perhaps guilt is more of an internal reaction to a violation of one’s personal values, conscious or subconscious. I don’t think God ever implants guilt in our hearts. Maybe he implants values or realizations, to which we respond to a reflection of guilt, but he’s not the one making us feel guilty. We are. Guilt is not necessarily good or bad. God can use it to help us change, but that’s about where it ends.
Shame is always bad. It’s what keeps us from changing even when we know what we’re doing is against what we believe to be true. Shame is a major reason people feel alienated and leave the church. Shame is not even remotely Christlike. It is coercive in nature and it brings a whole slew of other negative emotions with it, including depression, hopelessness, and alienation. God will never use shame, even though it is used by church leaders all the time. It is employed by the Peter Priesthoods and the Nephi Joseph Hyrum Smith Williams’s of the church, and it is used by the political/social activists of the world who want to silence opposition and gather followers. We should not use shame as a tool.
I appreciate the distinction. I also feel that guilt appears to be very personal. 11 year old DD does not appear to feel remorse like other people do. She gets in trouble for something and then after only a few minutes is asking for a snack, or a friend to come over, or electronics. She does not understand the concept of a period of self imposed contrition or reflecting on the wrong that she had done. DW and I have tried to tell her that acting sorry/contrite/remorseful can be a useful life skill in life and relationships.
(as an aside, DD recently rejected an attempt of a classmate to sway her using peer pressure. “Do this for me or I will never ever forgive you.” [We found out by reading DD’s school emails] DW and I heaped praise on her then and even went out for ice cream to celebrate! I believe that her lack of guilt also makes it easier for her to disregard peer pressure.)
OTOH, there are individuals that are hyper self critical and feel guilt and shame to an unhealthy level.
Some level of moderation seems to be the key to staying emotionally healthy AND interacting meaningfully within one’s community.
There was a fascinating discussion on “The Hidden Brain” podcast that talks about the differences between guilt, regret, and shame. They are similar, but there are important differences. http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=550260750 There is a critical difference between the two. I have no problem with the principle and concept of guilt, but it is misapplied too much when what actually is being done is shaming. Shaming can be very effective, even if it usually is wrong.
Roy wrote:
OTOH, there are individuals that are hyper self critical and feel guilt and shame to an unhealthy level.
That would be me. Part of my agenda in stage 4 is to purge unnecessary/unhealthy guilt from my life.Ray, you seem to imply that there are good times to employ shame. Do you have an example?
Does shaming people that march in white supremacy rallies count? Employing some shame might: 1) Send a signal to the wider community that those beliefs are not healthy for the community as a whole, preventing new converts to their cause if you will.
2) Maybe serve as a catalyst to get a person marching in those rallies to reevaluate their beliefs.
The trouble with guilt and shame is that they can be misapplied. But they also keep you away from bad things. nibbler wrote:
Does shaming people that march in white supremacy rallies count? Employing some shame might:1) Send a signal to the wider community that those beliefs are not healthy for the community as a whole, preventing new converts to their cause if you will.
2) Maybe serve as a catalyst to get a person marching in those rallies to reevaluate their beliefs.
The trouble was that they outed people who were not at Charlottesville as having been there.
Beefster wrote:
Guilt comes from within. Shame comes from others.
I think Shame comes from within also. I feel ashamed of myself when I do something bad and it impacts others. Shaming others is trying to get them to feel that emotion, which could be good or bad but isn’t inherently bad in all cases. So it can come from within, or be directed from others towards us, I think.
Shame can be good if it helps me humble myself and makes me more aware of my vulnerabilities and mistakes and problems. It is good and healthy to be aware and awake.
For example, I took my son golfing. On a par 3, I really wanted to land the 180 yard tee off shot on to the green…I knew I could reach it…just need to hit my 3 wood correctly. Which I didn’t. In the water. I lost my cool, actually let out an F-bomb and smacked the 3-wood on the ground and the head of the club snapped off and went bouncing down off the tee box. I felt guilty I lost my cool…turned and looked at my son
😮 he had never seen his dad do that. I felt shame.I don’t want to feel those feelings anymore. I actually don’t feel too guilty swearing when I’m by myself…don’t think it is wrong in and of itself, but I shame myself when around people I care about that I can’t control my temper better.
The good part of feeling that shame is that it makes me aware of the example i set for my kids. I can do better. I should do better. I try to do better. Shame helps me keep my cool and be more up-standing and in control. (It also costs money to replace my clubs when I break them).
There are limits to using shame in abusive ways, but I think there can be a place for guilt and shame in how we self-assess our own behaviors, and how they impact others at home, at church, or on the golf course.
Of course…I try to work on not letting others shame me when I think they are wrong. They can’t MAKE me feel guilty, they can try, but it is up to me how I process it.
Yes, sometimes shame is important. A man answering an ad to have sex with a twelve-year-old and getting caught in a sting should be shamed – even if only by having what he tried to do made public.
A Bishop who embezzles church funds shouldn’t be shamed – even if I told onlybis by being excommunicated and/or convicted.
Generally, shame is not the best primary action – but it absolutely has a proper place in society.
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