Home Page › Forums › Spiritual Stuff › Wisdom Does Not Equal Pride – Great and Spacious Building
- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
October 3, 2017 at 12:27 pm #211638
AmyJ
GuestI was re-reading my notes for class, and realized that there are 3 definitions of the “Great and Spacious Building” referenced in 1 Nephi. 1 Nephi 11: 35 (Angelic Reference) “Behold the world and the
wisdomthereof…” (Worldly Wisdom – could be conventional wisdom or crowd sourced understanding) 1 Nephi 11:36 (Nephi’s Reference) “…was the
pride of the world; and it fell, and the fall thereof was exceedingly great.” (Pride on a worldly scale, could be a form of nationalism, traditions, etc.) 1 Nephi 12:18 (Angelic Reference) “… is
vain imaginationsand the pride of the children of men…” (Vain imaginations could be imaginations that were without purpose or fruition. Pride of the children of men is our individual pride – this I feel is what President Benson talked about.) Why do you think this building is described in so many different ways?
October 3, 2017 at 12:33 pm #323943Anonymous
GuestI wonder if people in the building looked out of the windows and wondered why people gathered around a tree were pointing a finger of scorn in their direction. October 3, 2017 at 1:09 pm #323944Anonymous
GuestMaybe it is such a great and spacious building that it has different aspects to it, all related to people left to their own understanding and not seeking God’s inspiration. October 3, 2017 at 5:07 pm #323945Anonymous
GuestPride or hubris is by definition vain or puffed up. It is more certain and confident than it has reason to be. It is over-confident. It has a weak foundation. The people at the tree are described as prostrating themselves to partake of the fruit – an extreme act of humility.
October 3, 2017 at 5:10 pm #323946Anonymous
GuestI especially love taking these types of visions and parables and applying them to my inner emotional/spiritual landscape. I am both humble seeker and haughty mocker. It is an internal struggle. October 3, 2017 at 5:18 pm #323947Anonymous
GuestAmyJ wrote:
I was re-reading my notes for class, and realized that there are 3 definitions of the “Great and Spacious Building” referenced in 1 Nephi.1 Nephi 11: 35 (Angelic Reference) “Behold the world and the
wisdomthereof…” (Worldly Wisdom – could be conventional wisdom or crowd sourced understanding) I don’t know why it was described in so many ways, but the one above has always been a pet peeve for me. It seems that we are told to “seek learning out of the best books”, and that “The Glory of God is Intelligence” and that we are to improve ourselves, go to school, etcetera. But when that advice leads to anything that is contrarion to existing culture or policy, all of a sudden we tell everyone not to be fooled by the machinations of men, not to kick against the pricks, or otherwise conclude ideas that are not consistent with “revealed” truth.
My theory is that in the time of JS, it was very difficult for the average person to get an education. At that time, you had to teach yourself if you weren’t wealthy or privileged enough to go to school. I think there was a kind of haughtiness from professors and learned people toward the uneducated, and JS picked up on that. “When they are learned, they think they are wise”, comes to mind from the Book of Mormon – an unqualified slap against the academic community.
So, I think JS had angst toward the academic establishment at the time. And anyone with a limited education, who claims to be a publisher of a book, would likely be looked down upon by the academic community. So JS wrote cautions against believing everything the academic community said, in the scriptures, so he could rely on God to back up his claims, while marginalizing the conclusion of learned men (and women).
The problem is that we could also re-write “when they are learned they think they are wise” to read “when they are church leadership positions they think they are wise”. But I would be fairer about it, and say “SOMETIMES, when they are in church leadership positions they think they are wise.”. The old phrase “the Lord will never permit the prophet to lead the church astray” is a case of this questionable claim. Yet we know this is not true. We had to repudiate the priesthood ban, didn’t we? Claiming it was never doctrine? But it WAS considered doctrine by many. Elder Uchdorft admitted church leaders have made mistakes, which also supports my claim.
I saw a letter from the FP to a sociologist in Cuba/Carribean who rebutted the idea that blacks should not be marginalized due to their lack of priesthood — way back in 50’s or 60’s. He was rebuked by the FP at that time for not accepting this “doctrine” that only non-blacks could receive the priesthood.
Anyway, the short answer is I think the first definition of the great and spacious building was a pot shot at conventional wisdom, and also, the knowledge of the academic community that might question the origins of the scriptures that JS was instrumental in creating. And I don’t agree with it. Sometimes the wisdom of the world is wiser than the wisdom of church leaders….Remember, I said “Sometimes”. Church leaders also have a lot of great advice. But they can be very wrong sometimes, and you have to have your filters on full to make sure you don’t hurt yourself by following their advice.
October 3, 2017 at 6:35 pm #323948Anonymous
GuestSD wrote:we could also re-write “when they are learned they think they are wise” to read “when they are church leadership positions they think they are wise”
I agree, SD. It can come full circle from a boy searching for a relationship with God and not required to go through institutions, to the church being setup that individuals should go through to get to God. I like thinking that we can all go through a similar experience Joseph did, even if told we aren’t qualified to receive revelations. Even still, Joseph found it difficult to run an organization without authority and hierarchy, which is interesting knowing where he came from.
I’m glad the church teaches us to not trust in the arm of flesh.
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.