Experimenting and Experiencing

Please share what you learn.

This may be obvious, but in all your experimenting – remember to “trade up”

What Amy said! 🙂

While you’re experimenting, don’t expect God to give you a sign that whatever you’re doing is right or wrong. More often than not, the answer you’re likely to receive is silence. The absence of guilt, shame, or personal revalation doesn’t necessarily mean that something isn’t wrong. With porn, specifically, I think the question you really need to ask is, “Is this making me a better person?” I understand what you’re saying about skipping church. There are weeks that I go to church and feel worse by the end of the meetings than I did when it started, because of things that were said. There are also weeks that I skip and feel just find about it, because I find other uplifting things to do, whether that’s listening to music, going for a hike, or whatever. But, I continue going, mainly because it’s how I can support my wife. But, with porn, it’s hard to imagine you could come away from it feeling like, “I’m glad I did that. What a great use of time.” As a single person, it probably feels like it’s not a huge deal, because it’s a victimless vice. But, when you get married, porn can have a huge impact on your relationship. I’ll get off my soapbox now, but I would just recommend these two links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kvzamjQW9M” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kvzamjQW9M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1srDERIZIMY” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1srDERIZIMY

Like Amanda said, “Trade up.” Experimenting is one thing, but justifying is another.

I agree with the suggestion to trade up.

The P thing is difficult. I really like the discussion we had about an article on this topic http://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6664&p=92583&hilit=naked+ipod#p92583

One of my main takeaways is that porn use is a coping mechanism for loneliness or other challenges. Coping mechanisms can be helpful up to a point. They cease to be helpful when the coping mechanism becomes a barrier to actual self fulfillment (in this case meaningful relationships and connectedness). I recommend caution and moderation.

OTOH, I am a proponent of participating in other churches. I consider it to be supplementing my spirituality. I LOVE when I see a familiar scripture verse taken in new directions. I also meet cool people. :thumbup:

That like is one of the best. Porn is often a coping mechanism. So is eating, soaking in a tub, watching a movie to relax … I am not saying these are equal, but we need to give ourselves a break at times.

I think the issue that is a problem is when porn is shamed so much that THE PORN “ADDICTION” becomes one of the major stresses in our life given we have been told it is one of the worst things to do. And then a shame cycle gets spun up that is a huge downward spiral. We don’t see the intense shaming in most other coping mechanisms (other than maybe drugs, heavy alcohol use, or abuse).

I like the way the link you included looks at it. It is best not to look at it, but if you do and you like it – it isn’t the end of the world and you would be good to not keep looking. Just move on.

I think there’s something to be said for letting go of guilt and fear. There are many things “the church teaches” that are simply not as bad as what is taught. I think these things are mostly ties to our Puritan roots (in the church and otherwise). Gambling is an example. I don’t really see that it’s directly mentioned in the scriptures. I don’t necessarily believe gambling is a good thing and I see that some people who engage in gambling can’t really afford to and some lives have been severely negatively impacted by gambling. That doesn’t make it a sin.

And some people would never put a quarter in a slot machine, but enter into very risky business deals in the millions that if the go bad they will be bankrupt.

Regarding porn use, I think it important to mention the male-centricity of most of it. Usually, the men are the arbiters, the agents who engage and the women are there to fulfill his desires. I think this is especially problematic for people who have never had any sexual experience in real life, as it sets them up for unrealistic expectations. Even acknowledging that it’s fantasy, there are still lots of things that don’t bubble up to the surface until you’re in a sexual relationship with someone else.

Like others have said, removing shame and anxiety/fear is usually a good thing, but I’m also hesitant to put a blue ribbon on consuming porn. Additionally, pragmatically speaking, the industry is notoriously terrible to the actors, and a lot of them don’t have much choice regarding their “careers”. Is it a deal breaker or divorce maker? No. But it’s not in the positive column either.

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Regarding porn use, I think it important to mention the male-centricity of most of it. Usually, the men are the arbiters, the agents who engage and the women are there to fulfill his desires. I think this is especially problematic for people who have never had any sexual experience in real life, as it sets them up for unrealistic expectations. Even acknowledging that it’s fantasy, there are still lots of things that don’t bubble up to the surface until you’re in a sexual relationship with someone else.

Like others have said, removing shame and anxiety/fear is usually a good thing, but I’m also hesitant to put a blue ribbon on consuming porn. Additionally, pragmatically speaking, the industry is notoriously terrible to the actors, and a lot of them don’t have much choice regarding their “careers”. Is it a deal breaker or divorce maker? No. But it’s not in the positive column either.

I think this is right on. We can say porn is a defense mechanism, or a stress relief, or whatever else; but, there are healthier ways to cope. Using porn as a way to cope with stress, or even just to avoid sheer boredom, doesn’t give us a healthy view of sex. And I think it goes deeper than Christian beliefs or Mormon views on modesty/chastity. Porn isn’t beneficial for the individual regardless of religious affiliation, but the real damage is in relationships. I have a close friend of 20+ years who was recently divorced, and said that what finally caused her to leave her marriage was that her husband wouldn’t give up porn. This couple is not LDS. In fact, they’re both atheist, very socially liberal, smoke weed on a fairly regular basis, etc., but are both very friendly and giving people with huge hearts. I’m still on very friendly terms with both of them, and they still interact with each other respectfully. They had their differences, but had a pretty good marriage, at least from an outsider’s perspective. But, she shared with my wife that she could always tell when he had been looking at porn a lot, because he’d get distant, short-tempered, impatient. And if she confronted him about it, he’d act like she was being over-sensitive and prudish about it. But, he would never acknowledge how it made her feel. She’s a very healthy and attractive person, but she was self-conscious and feeling like she’d never live up to what he wanted her to be. I’m sure, in his mind, the porn and how he viewed his wife where two completely separate things. But, she didn’t feel that way about it. Porn wasn’t their only issue, or even their biggest issue. But, in the end it was the deciding factor that made her feel the most disrespected.

So, can porn be a simple stress relief, and a way to relax at the end of the day. Sure. But, when I hear justifications for porn, it makes me feel the same way I feel when I start hearing justifications for the whole JS/Fanny Alger affair. 🙄 I’ve got no room to judge, and that’s not what I’m trying to do, but I think it’s okay to call a bad habit a bad habit.

I feel like there is far more to this story than just being able to look at this one particular incident and say that porn is the real issue. I could find stories of marriages being saved because porn allows the high drive partner an outlet.

On the surface, porn might have been the issue but there are likely underlying problems within the life/marriage that fuel the porn use. It’s best to figure out what those are and deal with them directly to bring your life/marriage into balance. If he was addicted (truly addicted not mormon addicted) then yes it is a problem although that’s likely not the case. As with everything in life, moderation in all things.

Overall, I did not enjoy the experience. I did not feel it drawing me closer to Christ and it did not, as a whole, make me happy.

Once, a friend described how the atonement is basically the fall in reverse. That was good for a few endowment sessions, and then it got old again.

The same friend later appealed to Masonic ritual and guild initiation to make the case that the veil ceremony is an ancient authentication protocol where at the last moment we learn the last authentication token: the name of God. Not only that, we basically “log in” as him, having the same rights, powers and priesthoods. That was good for quite a few more sessions before it got old again.

Nowadays, having read many stories about people who would have said “no” if given a real chance to, I’m not comfortable participating in a textbook case of undue influence. I’m also unwilling to nuance “be willing to give all you have to the Church” altogether out of the covenant I’m making. And I don’t like that the Church sells exaltation and guilts members into finding and doing work for the dead.

There are beautiful parts to the endowment, but let’s be honest: some of us just aren’t wired to get much out of it. For my part, I need my intellect engaged for anything spiritual to sink in, and the endowment has usually not been able to do that. I’m more than happy to not lose any more Saturdays to it.

My wife, though, loves to just sit and feel at peace. She appreciates being somewhere where she knows exactly what to expect, and where she can feel like she’s doing good by doing little more than relaxing. She really likes those Saturdays.