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Article below describes one BSA proponent thinks the organization is in decline: http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/20/whats-wrong-boy-scouts-goes-deeper-social-issues-cowardice/ Key thoughts:
Quote:
So what is wrong with the Boy Scouts? I do not think, at its root, it is simply that the Boy Scouts capitulated on a whole range of controversial social issues—though they surely have changed with popular culture. I think these changes are actually symptomatic of a deeper problem within the BSA. To put it simply: the Boy Scouts are too safe.Essentially, the Boy Scouts of America has abandoned its original insight into the soul of boys: They are natural warriors.
He goes into how yeah, its not cool to be a Boy Scout, but that it used to be worth it not to be cool — it was hard. He cites how the kids don’t have to learn to swim, aren’t allowed to trap animals, disturb the land with deadfalls to trap animals, cut trees to get flexible saplings for traps, and other environmental issues. Also how the kids used to be left in the wilderness with only some water for a few days and expected to survive. Not so any more — it’s too easy. And last of all, their Risk Management department has watered the whole program down.
Why do you think BSA has declined so much in recent years? To the point they are opening it up to girls without even changing their name?
I have noticed it is MUCH easier to earn your Eagle Scout Award, than it has in the past. I think in the past two decades, the percent of scouts who have earned their Eagle has doubled. I had a brother in law who, during the Eagle Board of Review, was told (paraphrasing), “Normally, your project just wouldn’t cut it; it doesn’t meet the requirements. But we like your personality, so we’re going to give it to you anyways.” I remember when I first earned my Eagle Scout Award, being told that it was the one thing I earned in my youth that I can still put on my resume 30+ years down the road. I’ve gotten more than a few weird looks from potential employers; if they weren’t a boy scout themselves, I think it hurt my chances of being hired. It’s also largely why I don’t put my mission down either anymore.
SilentDawning wrote:He cites how the kids don’t have to learn to swim, aren’t allowed to trap animals, disturb the land with deadfalls to trap animals, cut trees to get flexible saplings for traps, and other environmental issues. Also how the kids used to be left in the wilderness with only some water for a few days and expected to survive. Not so any more — it’s too easy. And last of all, their Risk Management department has watered the whole program down.
Right; no homebuilt stoves of any kind, no killing some dinner, and a lot of the most fun stuff is now banned. They say wilderness survival skills aren’t as important anymore, without considering how well those translate to any situation where technology fails even on a small scale.
I’ve made it through power failures comfortably more than once by improvising wood or alcohol stoves. I’ve saved myself towing fees by temporarily fixing a car with a whittled stick. I’ve had hot meals on the road because I knew what to pack. I quite possibly avoided heatstroke on a bicycle tour by knowing what to look for and what to do when “get some cold water and hang out in an air conditioned room” isn’t an option. Haven’t done deadfalls, but knowing how to fish and snare and what to do with the animal afterward kept my family fed through a poorly-timed job transition once.
Then a lot of it is just instilling the attitude to get through bad situations; instead of “if only I had…” it becomes “is there a way to improvise this or work around the lack of it?” You can’t do that if you’re not allowed to get into bad situations in a somewhat controlled environment like Scouts used to be, where adult leaders would only step in when you were in actual danger, and even then often only enough to get you out of it and explain how not to get back into it, then leave you to solve the rest of your problems yourself.
I have a different take on this some others here. I’m currently a youth leader currently, earned my Eagle as a youth, and my son just earned his eagle, and I am a Buffalo in Troop 1 (woodbadge). In other words I’m pretty much a scouter. To me it’s not that boys can’t go out and kill things any more – we don’t actually want them to do that any more and most of them don’t want to anyways. I disagree that it’s easier to earn your eagle scout awards. Maybe for LDS scouts that’s true because we only run 1/3 of the scout program as it’s intended, but it’s not necessarily true for traditional troops. I’d argue that is’s just different, not easier. When I was a scout the Cooking merit badge wasn’t required, now it is required and it’s one of the most difficult merit badges to earn. That one merit badge alone is a huge burden, and it’s only been required for about 3 years now.
This seems like an example of “when I was a kid I walked uphill to school both ways in the snow.” In some ways school was more difficult in the 50’s and in some ways it’s much more challenging. How many kids took calculus in high school in the 50s? It’s common now, but calculus is the same. In the 50’s most kids didn’t have cars and phones and nutrition the way we do now, so in that way high school is much easier now.
I argue that it’s the similar for scouting. Outdoor skills are simply not as important now and they aren’t as desired now. We are a more urban world. Back when few people had college degrees, eagle scout probably set apart those with high school diplomas. Now masters degrees are fairly common.
My take is that the boy scouts is declining is because it hasn’t found a way to adapt to the true needs and interests of the youth. Kids are busier now. Kids in my ward have school activities or club sports all year round with no time for church, scouts, or a host of other worthwhile activities. Sports are more demanding and you basically have to practice year round. Academics are more demanding with AP classes and IB programs. Scouts is declining among the youth for the same reasons the church is declining among Christian youth.
Relevance.
What Roadrunner said. Word-for-word. Roadrunner wrote:
My take is that the boy scouts is declining is because it hasn’t found a way to adapt to the true needs and interests of the youth. Kids are busier now. Kids in my ward have school activities or club sports all year round with no time for church, scouts, or a host of other worthwhile activities. Sports are more demanding and you basically have to practice year round. Academics are more demanding with AP classes and IB programs. Scouts is declining among the youth for the same reasons the church is declining among Christian youth.Relevance.
My son is way NOT busier than I was as a student, and we can’t get him out of the house. It’s all technology now that keeps him glued to his computer. I think that may have something to do with it. The fact is, the technology is way cooler than being out sweating in the sun, avoiding heat stroke, figuring your way out of situations, and waiting patiently for a trap to work, doing a big scale service project (like the Eagle Scout), and exerting yourself physically etcetera. When I look at the things cubs had to do when my son was of that age, I thought they were very worthwhile. I can’t get my son interested in any of them.
In fact, I have a program I do at home which I call the “Certified Boy” program. All the things he needs to know how to do when it’s time to leave the house. I asked him to rank all the things on a scale of 1 to 10 regarding his interest in doing the activities. The highest one was a 6/10 regarding writing a computer program. All the rest however between 1 and 5. Shows a heck of a lack of interest in anything but technology.
We even have a wood shop and every musical instrument imagineable and he still won’t bite on activities related to either of them.
That’s anectdotal, but it wouldn’t surprise me if other parents have similar issues with their kids.
Roadrunner wrote:To me it’s not that boys can’t go out and kill things any more – we don’t actually want them to do that any more and most of them don’t want to anyways.
You may not, but those who recognize what’s actually necessary to become proficient in outdoor life do. Besides, nothing teaches the value of a meal quite like having to find the meat course, take its life humanely and process it efficiently.
Quote:When I was a scout the Cooking merit badge wasn’t required, now it is required and it’s one of the most difficult merit badges to earn. That one merit badge alone is a huge burden, and it’s only been required for about 3 years now.
That’s only because we never had pate de foie gras and nonfat double shot vanilla lattes on the camp menu before. Even then, our camp menu would look extravagant to any number of perfectly healthy cultures.
Quote:How many kids took calculus in high school in the 50s? It’s common now, but calculus is the same.
I wasn’t in high school in the 50s, so I don’t know if it was a regular class or not, but I have seen a HS level calculus text among my grandfather’s books, and he was in high school in the 40s. While we’re on that, let’s take a look at Penn and Teller…or rather ignore Penn’s clown college education and look at Teller’s prior career teaching Latin and Greek classics in high school. Now we have remedial English in college, and it’s not just for the ESL students, but also for those who somehow managed to pass 12 years of English instruction while still not having basic writing skills.
Quote:Outdoor skills are simply not as important now and they aren’t as desired now. We are a more urban world.
All the more reason to teach the skills that one can’t get wandering from air conditioned building to air conditioned car. Judging from the “sold out” status at the last two state parks I visited, camping is still very popular, (Though I was able to find a site in primitive, even that was packed, and had I not been on a bicycle, I would have been lugging my gear from the entrance parking lot rather than the full trailhead lot.)
Quote:My take is that the boy scouts is declining is because it hasn’t found a way to adapt to the true needs and interests of the youth.
No, it’s because it’s been too busy trying to adapt to the interests and fears of adults who don’t want Little Dakota to get a bit of squirrel blood on his hands and experience any of that nasty “reality” stuff.
SilentDawning wrote:
When I look at the things cubs had to do when my son was of that age, I thought they were very worthwhile. I can’t get my son interested in any of them.
3 thoughts. 1st. There are activities that we go to as a family. We, as parents, get to insist that kids go. 2nd. In the circumstance that there is a worthwhile activity and the child chooses not to go then they will not have access to electronics during this time period. I have observed that there is precious little that can compete with the allure of electronics. If my children decide not to participate in a program that is healthy/social/educational then I want them to decline out of genuine disinterest rather than just being unable to pull themselves away from electronics. 3rd. We have a point system for earning privileges in my house. Going to school, brushing teeth, reading for 30 min, etc. all earn points. Using electronics, having a sleepover, or going to a movie are all examples of things that use or deplete points. This helps to limit electronic time and also allow the child to prioritize their use of time/points.
NightSG wrote:
No, it’s because it’s been too busy trying to adapt to the interests and fears of adults who don’t want Little Dakota to get a bit of squirrel blood on his hands and experience any of that nasty “reality” stuff.
I suppose that we can agree that kids nowadays are more distracted (whether from being overscheduled or from smartphones or a combination of multiple factors).
Roadrunner wrote:
Scouts is declining among the youth for the same reasons the church is declining among Christian youth.
Interesting thought. There are different strategies to targeting youth. One is to loosen requirements. Make participation less onerous and more entertaining. Another strategy is to go niche and countercultural. You will lose appeal to a large segment but you can develop a loyal following among a sub segment. It appears that NightSG is proposing to hyper focus on certain core scouting efficiencies rather than pursue other market segments. It would probably reduce the raw numbers of participants/eagle scouts but perhaps reinstate a certain elite cachet to the program.
I imagine that there are competing ideologies behind the different approaches.
[Moderator Note – Please recognize that there are different valid viewpoints to this particular problem. Please keep this assumption present in writing responses. Thank you]
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