Proselytizing without Eternal Family mention

Jesus Christ.

HERETIC!

With that attitude, you’ll be expecting the Church to celebrate Easter next.

HERETIC!

With that attitude, you’ll be expecting the Church to celebrate Easter next.

SHHH. Don’t tell anyone. I want it to be a surprise.

This is an oversimplification, but for me what is unique and what “sells” the church is two things: 1) Eternal families 2) unique authority to create eternal families.

This is a double edged sword and is a very “feel good” doctrine that works until you acknowledge the messiness of real life. It’s made worse when our leaders don’t announce new revelations to explain the messiness. There was a video in the 80’s and 90’s that missionaries often used, I think it was called “What is Real” but I might be wrong about the title. In this video a married couple was interested in the discussions until the missionaries taught about eternal families. Turned out that the family didn’t want to be together forever. The missionary answer was to heal the marriage so the investigators desired to be together. However, that doesn’t work in myriad circumstances as the original post expressed.

I think the answer is different that most have expressed here. We have to emphasize eternal families and authority to seal – but we have to accompany that with better answers than “it will all be figured out in the next life.” That answer rings hollow when we brag about living prophets and we’re no different than other churches. As Nibbler pointed out at some point the answer becomes “it will be sorted out later” but at a minimum it has to be more fair.

Just last week an older couple who was married civilly two years ago asked me if they could get sealed and I told the wife that she had to get her 1st sealing to her first husband, who is still alive, canceled. She was appalled and said she hadn’t seen her first husband for 30 years and he doesn’t have anything to do with the church and isn’t even a good man. However, the new husband is a widower and has no issues since he can be sealed to multiple women. Utterly unfair.

I love the principle of family centeredness and working to promote security, love, refuge, safety, support, and harmony within the home.

For some there needs to be a literal interpretation in order to get and stay motivated. Exclusivity also helps – you can only have an eternal family IF you jump through these hoops. Then it can be used as both a carrot and a stick which I am not a big fan of.

I believe that the relationships that we form with those closest to us DO matter and will continue to matter in the eternities

IMHO – I don’t think most 18 an 19 year old missionaries even think of the complexity of the case nor even know the “policies”/beliefs of the church. They only think of the “normal” two people married with a few kids.

I have always found it hard to figure out the day to day afterlife relationships with being both sealed to my parents, my siblings, my wife, and my kids. To me it makes more sense that I would be sealed to my wife, and get to visit often with all the others. Otherwise it gets too complicated.

And I don’t think most of the 18/19-year olds actually have a testimony of Jesus Christ and the atonement. As you point out, they don’t see the big picture.

And I don’t think most of the 18/19-year olds actually have a testimony of Jesus Christ and the atonement. As you point out, they don’t see the big picture.

A lot of them are just obeying orders – the central problem of Mormonism. With some of them it’s painfully obvious they’re just doing what’s expected of them. A buddy of mine saw a couple on the bus making obscene comments about investigators – they must have thought they were off duty and no one was listening, because the bus was near empty. Well, a friend of a member was! Makes me wonder what they discuss back in their accommodation.

Our human view of the afterlife (at least for the good people) is defined in most all religions as being “more of what we love and none of what we don’t.” There’s more light, more love, more music, more smiling. There’s no sickness, sorrow or death. Furthermore, all the jerks are in Hell, so they can’t bother us there.

So, in Mormonism, we project the relationships we cherish into the afterlife, too. I don’t see anything wrong with this; actually, I think it’s the single best doctrine of the Church, and I wish it were true. That may not be how everyone sees it, but it is how many see it. So, good for them.

From a long ago thread about “Death”:

My faith crisis led me to Christianity for awhile, but eventually landed me in Atheism. For me, at least, the single worst thing about Atheism is the belief that there is no afterlife. But not so much for me. I accept that I will vanish from existence someday and I am more or less OK with that idea. Yet, when I am confronted with the death of others, that is when Death has a Sting. The other day I had a few moments, so I called and talked to one of my kids. It was a great conversation. I was so happy to have the opportunity. After I hung up, I had the thought pop into my mind that I hadn’t talked to my dad for awhile, and that I should call him. The thought lingered for about 0.5 seconds and then sucked the air out of me. My dad has been gone for years. He was a wonderful man. His sudden, progressive, devastating and short-lived illness left children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren in a shock that has not gone away all this long time later. I found it an especially bitter pill to swallow because of my belief that there is no entity that exists now that was once my father. He only now exists in our memories. A new generation will rise that didn’t know him and my generation will fade; taking those memories with us. Even writing this causes the tears to well up in me. Over the intervening years, I have often thought of experiences that he and I shared together, with no one else. It is bitter-sweet to think of those things. Sweet, for obvious reasons, but bitter, because of my perspective that I alone have any recollection of those events. It is as if they only exist in my own mind.

IMO, religion probably appeared when we first became aware of mortality. It’s one of the reasons that I don’t particularly care to argue against religious belief or for Atheism. My father went to his grave believing in an afterlife and it gave him comfort. I’m happy that many of you believe in an afterlife. I hope I’m wrong and you are right. Nothing would make me happier than to wake up on the other side and find JS there ushering me toward the line heading to the Great Bar of God, and telling me, “Brother On, you are probably not heading to the Celestial Kingdom, but I think you’ll still like where you wind up. It’s glorious and beautiful.” To which I will reply, “Sounds good. Do you know if my dad is around?”