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  • #211790
    Anonymous
    Guest

    My MIL sent us the following article to keep in our family binder (they also sent the family binder to us in a previous mailing as a handy place to keep all the articles that they mail to us. :lolno: )

    https://www.lds.org/new-era/2017/12/two-guests-for-christmas?lang=eng

    The article speaks of a family tradition of celebrating JS on 12/23, his birth and his contributions to our understanding of the life and mission of JC.

    This strikes me as something that would give reason to those individuals that claim that we worship JS. Almost like an attempt to Shoehorn JS into the Christmas season.

    Now, Richard M. Romney is not a G.A. It appears from his LinkedIn page that he has spent most of his life working in church publications (managing editor of New Era Magazine from 1977-2010) Where does this fall in the realm of church doctrine, accepted culture, and norms?

    Is it just a quirky holiday tradition of one family? Minus 10 doctrine points

    Does the family name matter? Plus 5 Doctrine points

    Does the fact that it was shared by a non-GA matter? Minus 15 doctrine points

    Does the fact that it was published in a church magazine matter? Plus 10 doctrine points

    Does the fact that the author is a senior member of the church magazine department for almost 40 years matter? Plus 5 doctrine points

    Does the fact that this article was sent to me by my MIL and I want her to mind her own business matter? ;) Minus 25 doctrine points

    Just kidding with that last one …. sort of.

    #325600
    Anonymous
    Guest

    No, so no.

    Of course, I am of the opinion that if Jesus Christ’s birthday is actually in April as reported by revelation, then we should be celebrating his birthday in April – I don’t feel that showing love by celebrating a person’s birthday 3 months after the fact works…

    Now, I get that Christ’s birthday is not moving from December for a variety of reasons, and some of them I see the sense in. I am even looking at becoming expansive enough to celebrate Christmas all year around – and tone down my Christmas expenditures so that they can be scattered throughout the year…

    I can even respect why other people might make a bigger deal of JS’s birthday – but that is not me.

    I would conveniently “lose” the article, feed it to something that would find it tasty (like the paper shredder) and do social niciety lying if it came up. If you got pinned in place to talk about it, I would re-direct to celebrating Christ’s birth as soon as possible (if that is palatable).

    This probably one of those weird cultural things like a lot of our Christmas trappings (or this writer of the article wants it to be part of the trappings).

    #325601
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Like Amy, I’d just ignore it and throw it away. My in-laws are uber-conservative and often name drop the many GAs that they know and it makes me crazy. MIL often says deeply uncomfortable things to my kids like “the only Christmas present I want is for you all to be active in the church” while starting to cry. We all just smile and as soon as we are in the car we laugh it off. Maybe I’m too cynical but she has no sense of propriety so I figure it evens out.

    On a side note my sister bakes a birthday cake on Christmas Eve with one candle and they all sing Happy Birthday to Jesus. It’s kind of wacky but whatever works. Maybe I’ll suggest she bake a cake for JS also.

    #325602
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Roy, I’m afraid I have some bad news for you. Nursing homes for people with cognitive impairments cost nearly twice as much as regular nursing homes. 😈 :angel:

    In the past I’ve heard anecdotal stories of ward Christmas parties that took on a “Merry Smithmas” theme. You’d show up and people would dress like pioneers and there would be pictures of JS all over the place. I haven’t heard of that happening lately but it is a thing.

    Going in line with current themes we’ve had locally, I expect this week’s SM (the one before Christmas Eve) to focus on JS because it’s his birthday. The Christmas SM will be the traditional readings from Luke 2 mixed with carols that we always do – but this week is fair game.

    It’s funny. We set ourselves up for the fall don’t we? Make such a big deal out of the Paul Bunyans and Bill Braskys of our past, almost to the point of deification, then when we discover they weren’t mythical, they were just regular humans, it shakes us… and then we get reprimanded for developing a testimony in the wrong thing. Here’s our chance to nip it in the bud before it gets started. This, this right here, is where “testimony of the wrong thing” begins.

    #325603
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    I expect this week’s SM (the one before Christmas Eve) to focus on JS because it’s his birthday

    Dear lord, No!!!

    This will make the weekend a full wipe out. Our Ward Christmas Party is twist on the Grinch story. Except Cindy Loo Woo teaches the Grinch that Jesus is the Reason for the Season. (I eavesdropped in the bathroom).

    I can’t do Smithmas. I refuse. I even have a few things I like about the guy. But I am with Amy. If we are Smithmassing, then Da@# it all – I want to sing Silent Night in April.

    #325604
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’ve got my reservations about Joseph Smith Day, but at least it’s not Columbus day! Oh, wait… don’t we revere him as a spiritual paragon too?

    I think it’d be easy to toss this aside, saying JS wouldn’t approve of his birthday taking away from the celebration of Christ.

    #325605
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’ve never been in a ward that talks much about JS in December – thankfully. However I was in a ward that in Sacrament Meeting spoke about year supply on Easter.

    #325606
    Anonymous
    Guest

    mom3 wrote:


    I can’t do Smithmas. I refuse. I even have a few things I like about the guy. But I am with Amy. If we are Smithmassing, then Da@# it all – I want to sing Silent Night in April.

    In our home, we do sing “Silent Night” in April, in June, in October… whenever we feel like it. We do bow to social convention outside the home and not play/sing it…usually.

    When I co-taught our Pathways class in October on the Isaiah chapters of 2 Nephi, I insisted on singing “Silent Night” as the opening hymn because 1) It would bring the Spirit, 2) It would shake things up for the students, and 3) tied in clearly with the lesson because those chapters quote the Isaiah prophecies about Jesus Christ. Everyone thought it was a little “quirky” but sang with good gusto.

    The soundtrack to “The Nativity Story” (2006) has become one of our staple Sunday listening while getting ready for church…

    #325607
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    The soundtrack to “The Nativity Story” (2006) has become one of our staple Sunday listening while getting ready for church…

    I love that movie.

    #325608
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The movie really speaks to me – different scenes and whatnot.

    But I find the soundtrack breath-taking and a source for inspiration worthy of (though not limited to) the Sabbath.

    #325609
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Couple of thoughts.

    We don’t celebrate the birthday of Jesus; we celebrate the birth of Jesus. It’ doesn’t matter that we do this on December 25th. In the same sense, we celebrate Jesus’ resurrection, rather than the date of it. Easter this year was universally celebrated on April 16. Last year, the Western-style churches celebrated Easter on March 27, the Eastern on May 1.

    As for the JS Birthday issue. A quarter century ago, we had a Stake Adult Meeting of some kind and for some reason on Dec 22. When the Stake President arose to spoke, he talked about how “normally, this time of year, we talk about the birth of Jesus. But sometimes we forget that JS’s birthday is tomorrow”… and he went on to give all his remarks about he man JS. I was pretty appalled even as an all-in member.

    #325610
    Anonymous
    Guest

    On Own Now wrote:


    When the Stake President arose to spoke, he talked about how “normally, this time of year, we talk about the birth of Jesus. But sometimes we forget that JS’s birthday is tomorrow”… and he went on to give all his remarks about he man JS.

    Twisted mind and all but I find myself wishing someone from the crowd would start to boo out loud. Just to see where things went from there.

    #325611
    Anonymous
    Guest

    My wife’s birthday is in December. She hated being over-looked, to a degree, because of the rush to Christmas after Thanksgiving. I think that is what started this – a wish to celebrate Joseph’s birthday conflicting with the timing of Christmas.

    Having said that, NO! We talk enough about him at other times. In church, December should be focused on Jesus exclusively, in my opinion.

    #325612
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Just sharing a story that happened a long time ago, but not in a galaxy so far away – it was in the ward I still live in.

    One of the more eccentric members was asked to speak, I think it was the the second week in December. She started off talking about three birthdays we celebrate in December – Jesus, JS, and Beethoven. Yep, Beethoven. She was very musically inclined and centered her talk on Beethoven, barely mentioning the other two. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad she didn’t focus on JS – but in some ways talking about Beethoven was worse.

    This lady moved on long ago, I didn’t care for her anyway so I can’t say I miss her. Her husband was (presumably is) a saint.

    I don’t recall hearing mention of JS’s birthday in our SMs in recent history and I’m all good with that. I used this quote in my talk this week:

    Quote:

    Some people’s faith is based more on Joseph Smith than on Jesus Christ. When they begin to question the Prophet, they lose faith in the Savior. We all know of Latter-day Saints whose faith is shaken by new facts, such as the existence of the alternate accounts of the First Vision which I have talked about today. When this new information builds up, they grow concerned. Could it all be wrong? Their consternation goes so far that they consider leaving the church, painful as that would be.

    For a long time, I would try to answer their specific questions, try to persuade them there was another way of understanding the facts that were bothering them. I reminded them that people like me and many other informed Latter-day Saints are aware of all the disruptive information and still believe in Joseph Smith. We would talk for hours, but nothing seemed to work. After all the talk, they seemed as fixed in their doubts as I am in my faith.

    Of late, I have taken to asking the doubters a question. How do you feel about Jesus Christ? If they say the Savior means everything to them, I assure them, you will be alright. If you can hold to Christ, you will find your way. But to my dismay, others say that in losing faith in Joseph Smith, they also lose faith in Christ and even in God and prayer. Everything falls apart. I feel bad when I hear this response. It means that Joseph Smith, not the Savior, is the foundation of their faith. Once Joseph is removed, the whole building collapses.

    This is not what Joseph intended. He did not organize a Church of Joseph Smith. The Articles of Faith do not mention Joseph Smith’s name. They begin with the statement we believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in his Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. That is the foundation.

    Those who lose faith in Christ because they have lost faith in Joseph Smith have things backward. Joseph’s mission was to increase faith in Christ, not in himself. He thought of himself as one of the weak things of the world who came forth that faith might increase in the earth and that Christ’s everlasting covenant might be established.5 He would want us to develop faith in his teachings, in Christ and the atonement, in prayer and adhesion to high moral standards, not in him as a man. He would want us to believe in the principles independent of the man, as the Saints in the first decade did. We honor him as a prophet, to be sure, but as one who testified of the Savior. His revelations pointed beyond himself to Christ and the Father. I believe in Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, and most of you here today do too. But we must place our faith first in Christ, and believe in him apart from our faith in his messenger. Christ should be the anchor when we struggle and question.


    (Richard Bushman, BYU Hawaii, Nov. 2016)

    #325613
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Great quote DJ –

    Brother Smithmas didn’t arrive in our Sacrament Meeting today. We had a talk on Gratitude. The other was the HC speaker. He’s a friend. Big BofM dude. But that is why we have cell phones and tablets. The Book of Luke is the perfect distraction. I liked his ending story.

    But no Smithmas.

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