The White Bear Problem

Yep. I found the same thing. I have found that a different method works MUCH MUCH MUCH better. I don’t shame myself for ANY of my thoughts that pop into my head. I just try to objectively look at my thoughts and if they are something I don’t want to do, I just kind of chuckle and say to myself, “isn’t that odd that my brain thinks of that” and the thought generally go away. It sure works better than feeling bad that my wacky brain has weird (and even perverse) things I will never actually do.

The same general method has helped me with porn. I no longer shame myself for having desires for that. If people like me didn’t have sexual drives the species would have died out a long time ago. I just figure I could look at porn if I wanted to, but won’t look at porn today. That has turned it around for me.

I have come to a conclusion that fighting some parts of the “natural man” head-on is a losing battle. It almost always throws me into a downward shame cycle. I decided that isn’t working for me.

You almost lost me on that one Sam, but I get it. You make a good point. But there are things we need to know about bears – white or not – that can only be understood if we think about them.

True… it is good to be aware of them, but to fixate on something is not the best way to deal with it.

Did you ever try to be absolutely still and quiet as a child for any amount of time? I swear it was really hard. You have to move. You have to scratch that itch. You’d be quieter and stiller waiting for a bus – at least you’d be thinking about something else.

LH points out what our White Bear in the church is – the big P. And there are others.

The best way is not to say “I will not think about a white bear. I will not think about a white bear,” or even going round saying “I’m doing really well not thinking about white bears”… it is to actually start doing other things to draw your mind away from it.

Of course as LH says, thinking about something is not quite the same as doing it. But Jesus (and Buddha!) also remind us that thoughts can lead to deeds. There is a two step problem here and I think we don’t address the first problem well, especially when it is instinctual.

It is ironic that “hum your favorite hymn” actually is decent advice – simply because it substitutes something else in place of whatever the original thought was.

I agree that letting go of guilt about being human is liberating and empowering. Urges are normal. So are some actions we mistakenly call sin – except when those actions draw someone away from God. I believe that is an individual line and an individual judgment in more cases than we collectively tend to allow, even as I believe in the principle of (some) communal standards.

To illustrate this point, a few weeks ago I was involved in a conversation about the Sabbath. Someone mentioned how busy she was on Sundays – church, which includes traveling in her stake calling, she’s a Sunday ARP facilitator, and was at the time doing the self reliance classes which were on Sunday (the SP has since put a kibosh on both of those being on Sunday), and sometimes other meetings. I commented that having a day like that doesn’t seem very worshipful to me and that I didn’t think it was really keeping the Sabbath. She took some offense and said something to the offense that she found her Sabbaths to be very worshipful, thank you very much. (1. apparently the SP at least in part agreed with me; 2. if she really thought that way was she telling everyone how busy she was?) The point is that I find that kind of day to nothing at all a delight – but she apparently found some delight in it. Keeping the Sabbath is really up to us.

It is ironic that “hum your favorite hymn” actually is decent advice – simply because it substitutes something else in place of whatever the original thought was.

I have heard of some that after doing this for quite a while they eventually got to where when their favorite hymn was sung at church, it did a bit of an Alma 32:27 on them “aroused their faculties”! 😳 😳

The mind is a strange thing. When I was a teenager I got into the habit of listening to classical music when I went to bed. The only problem with this is that it meant that some of the music would send me to sleep when listening to it at other times. It took me years to break that conditioning.

That is me and most hymns, but I have never shaken it.

Lol. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I think one of the most basic principles in psychology, is when you tell someone NOT to do something (including yourself), EVEN IF you have a very good reason for doing so, that something becomes all the more seductive. I like to think of myself as a master, at not-thinking-about-white-bears. I “not-think-about” many things throughout the course of my day. The secret is, I don’t even try.

(P.S. I get that church leaders are not psychologists and I do not really want them delving into every diagnosis and problem. I suppose I would desire just a little more humility to the effect that our program might not be the best fit for all needs.)

Honestly, I think sometimes we are our own worst enemies. I have struggled with anxiety a lot over the last 2 years, and am coming across what caused it, what contributed to it, and what DIY solutions work for me after consulting with experts, doing my own research, and doing my own general testing/experimentation “this is what triggered it, this is what worked last time, this is what does not work..”

Some of the strongest support I have gotten was validation, followed by invitation. Some of “I hear how you struggled, and the struggle is real. I have been through similar problems and am happy to tell you what worked for me if you want me to” Or “Those sound like hard choices that you really struggled with. I am glad that you had the courage to make those hard choices.”

Our R.S. President bore her testimony in R.S. in December, and I was touched by how she started off. She has been in a stressful place for the last 6 months (out-of-state dwelling son got married at home just before her mom lost some of her mental and physical resources – requiring more from the R.S. President). She said specifically how she had been in a “bad place” recently – she was stressed and burning out under the pressure. For her to acknowledge that simple fact – that “she had been in a bad place” in her head and was grateful for the experiences that pulled her into a different place – that was powerful to me.

One of my favorite things about Elder Holland is his openness over the past few years to talk about his own depression and encourage people to seek professional help.

One of my favorite things about Utah is its high usage rate of antidepressants – since it shows that the overall culture is not dismissive of medication to help treat issues like depression.

We have a long way to go in that regard (seeking professional counseling and accepting medication for lots of issues), but we are nowhere near the back of the pack in that regard – or even the middle, when it comes to religious organizations.

I have said this elsewhere but is seems to be the thing in modern medicine to avoid discussing the external causes of mental illness. I think we favor doping people up over dealing with the environment or social setting.

A friend of mine is currently having massive mental health issues. He has had them his entire life, but to a big degree his external life has affected him. His mother treats him badly – witnessed it myself, and his work is always piling pressure on him. Now his wife has left him, taken the kids away and is threatening divorce. It’s no wonder he has some issues – and putting him on pills won’t get rid of any of these.

The USA is riddled with medication. It has probably been the best thing for stalling social change available.

Is it any wonder people turn to certain things to get away from this?