Bargaining – FC 5 Stages of Grief

Beefster,

Your thought process makes sense to me.

However, I would remind you of the 2 main mantras of this site:

1. Go slow. Focus on identifying whom you want to be/what your vision is – in or outside the church. You don’t have to make huge decisions now.

2. Don’t burn any bridges you don’t have to until you are 100% sure the bridge has to go.

I am learning that the church has to filter through my narrative and fit my experiences. It used to fit a lot easier, but so far I still find enlightenment from being Mormon, and I still identify with it.

I wish I could help more.

I remember reading “Believing Christ” early in my FC. It was amazing because it presented a much more Grace centered faith structure using predominantly BoM scriptures. It felt like I had just somehow overlooked the true core of the gospel. I had been immaturely focused on the law but now I was set free by grace. This for me could be similar to either denial or bargaining.

It did not take me too terribly long to discover that my new understanding was not received well. The BoM references that teach grace most strongly were minimized/diminished or qualified by modern church leaders in my BoM institute manual. I was believing big tent Mormonism but my church wanted to teach small tent Mormonism. This lead to anger.

Over time I have come to recognize that all the pieces for big tent Mormonism are there (especially if I cherry pick my sources) However I will never receive the same kind of affirmation from my faith community that I did before. I am my own kind of Mormon. I am simultaneously part of the group AND alone in the crowd. That is what stayingLDS means for me. This is my brand of acceptance. “Serenity, to accept the things I can not change, Courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference.”

I’m definitely keeping all this in mind. I really do hope that I can make it work somehow, but I struggle to see how that is even possible.

My TBM conditioning makes me constantly wonder what I’ve done wrong to be led on this road of “apostasy”

How do you know that this road isn’t where you are supposed to be to achieve the most amount of enlightenment for you?

If God isn’t as involved, then you have the opportunity to own it and make it yours.

If God is as involved, then logically He knows exactly where you are on the road and will guide you if you stumble way out of line.

One of my favorite stories in the Bible is the story of Esther because of the contradictions it brings out. It takes a series of un-Christlike circumstances (slavery, beauty contests etc) and turns it into a means to rescue the Jews and restore civil order. If Esther actually existed, I am sure that a) she was not trained for every part of that circumstance she found herself in b) it was not what she bargained for. She was probably considered a temporary resident by the king’s staff, and I can see eyebrows being raised among the Jews when she was put forth and accepted by the king. I believe she did nothing rash, supported and consulted with those around her, and owned her story.

yet I know that God still loves me and a part of me even feels that this is the right course of action for me. It’s all so confusing.

Yup.

My hope is that if I keep going to church, things will work themselves out somehow. And if they don’t, I hope that I can find peace with leaving. But that day is in the distant future as far as I can tell. If the day of reckoning comes and I find myself needing to leave the church, I dread the day of “coming out” to my parents, shattering all their hopes and dreams of being part of their eternal family, even though I feel that is not the case.

I can’t advise you about church. For me and my family, going elsewhere is not currently an option. In any case, there are doctrines that I need to believe in that I haven’t been able to find elsewhere, so here I stay (if I stay anywhere).

As for your parents – I don’t know. There is always a huge urge to blurt it all out and deal with the fallout – but those who have landed here and did that advise that it ends neutrally at best – and that the unexpected consequences of this action are usually worse off then before.

As it stands right now, I do not feel as if the church is working for me. Maybe it will someday. I don’t know.

As for other comments, I’ve definitely realized that trying to fix the church by bringing in converts is going to bring me frustration. Even just “fixing the church” is a recipe for failure. But the only way I know of to fix myself is something that I feel is impossible: magically being able to believe in the way that I once did.

It sounds like your expectations of the situation are very black/white. This stark contrast might be disturbing your internal peace.

For me, I am working on “fixing” myself by becoming more charitable. I may not know what God wants right now, but I am pretty sure in any good rule book, being more aware of others and their needs/righteous wants in balance with my needs/righteous wants is essential.

I also take a look at the different principles in my life and how they fit as mosaic pieces in my narrative. Some of them are very shiny and sparkly others not so much. While it is painful to examine each principle, I put some of them on the shelf if they are too painful and do what I can to fit what currently belongs there. It is not every day that a person gets the luxury of reforming their world view – I might as well take my time and do it as best as I can to make the most of the opportunity.

As for your parents – I don’t know. There is always a huge urge to blurt it all out and deal with the fallout – but those who have landed here and did that advise that it ends neutrally at best – and that the unexpected consequences of this action are usually worse off then before.

Even still, I can only pretend I still go to church for so long. Any and every interaction with them will eventually squeeze that out of me. I also don’t want to have to lie to them even if I avoid telling them as long as I can.

There is a difference between fighting a fight because it can be fought, and fighting a fight on the best ground possible. Eventually a faith transition evolves into a series of skirmishes if not a full-fledged battle. So while yes, eventually a show-down may be in the cards, there is nothing that says you HAVE to dump gasoline on that flame RIGHT NOW and deal with that fight unprepared on unstable terrain. I can see the charm of it – but fires have a tendency of getting out of hand and causing unplanned damage really quickly – and do you have your fire brigade ready? Have you done all you can to prevent the horrible fallout that would be a consequence of that action?

I would focus on setting up the environment/history to tell them on your own terms strategically.

Also “being sick” helps a lot. If they start tallying your church attendance (hopefully not – you are a grown man), you can always tell them that you felt prompted to do x,y,z (whatever activity you traded up from church attendance to do) and do the great redirect. You are lucky in that you are not partnered with someone else in how you run your life right now – your parents are counselors and advisors, but not co-pilots as in marriage.

Beefster,

Regarding parents, for me it would be important to show my parents that I was not acting irresponsibly. IF I was studying hard, getting good grades, not partying, holding down a part time job or internship, and trying to remain meaningfully connected to my community and faith tradition – THEN I would hope that my parents could cut me some slack for not attending every Sunday or not accepting just any calling and/or taking some responsibility for charting my own direction and path in regards to faith.

I would want to fight the narrative that I was just going through a phase or being a rebellious young person.

Thanks, university. It’s good to hear something from someone who has been through a similar situation.

I think a lot of the reason I have a hard time staying engaged with the church in the face of “losing my faith” (I would prefer some other term that is more positive, but this is good enough to communicate what I mean) is that I can’t bring myself to stay attached to it for social reasons. Just as when I was TBM, I would have never left the church over social reasons, I very much dislike the idea of staying for social reasons. I don’t have a wife or kids to keep me “anchored” to the church, so the only thing that can keep me in is if it is consistent with my life goals. I’m not yet sure if it still is.

I also have a hard time with keeping up an act or putting on a face. I don’t feel I have a lot of freedom to be myself within the church. It’s not quite doing a dog and pony show, but I definitely do not like having to withhold the fullness of my personality. I wish I didn’t have to put on a filter either, but I have a certain level of tact and respect for others.

But if I can find a way to reconcile my feelings and unorthodox beliefs with some level of engagement with the church and be willing to pay the price of withholding some authenticity for whatever benefit I get from church engagement, I’m set. I just haven’t figured out what I really get out of the church. Sometimes, I feel like the church gets more out of me (in the sense of what I bring into discussions, not in tithing) than I get out of it. And that might be okay if it weren’t so exhausting for something that is only occasionally fulfilling- and usually only a little bit when it is. Maybe I’m downplaying things. I dunno. At any rate, this all feels like an insurmountable task. I just hope that it isn’t. Though perhaps that hope is merely motivated by my reluctance to do something that I believe will devastate my mom emotionally.

One thing I know for sure right now is that if I do end up leaving the church, I will not be getting my name removed because I don’t see parting with the church as necessarily permanent. I plan on being amiable toward ward members and missionaries who try to “rescue” me- maybe even let them home teach me (as long as they’re not too pushy)- and be real with them. Probably more candid than I am now, though maybe not at first. Irony is if I go inactive, it’s possible people might actually home teach me. Perhaps I’m premature in this, but I’ve even set hypothetical boundaries for myself if and when the Word of Wisdom and Law of Chastity are no longer binding. Stuff like “never drink alone” and considering the possibility of pregnancy before having sex and placing caveats around that. I am not going to throw caution to the wind and will have a certain level of respect for what the church has helped me become. I do not regret, nor will I ever, a day of being active LDS, regardless of whether I am in or out.