Was I really like that? Yes.

This is exactly why I dislike the phraseology of ‘ either the church is true or we should have nothing to do with it’. It is a very black and white view, and understatedly implies that if you are not 100% you don’t belong.

The WORST response I have ever had to “coming out” was, “Why don’t you just have your name removed from Church records?” And when I explained why, it was used as evidence that deep down I still believed the Church was true.

Well longbottom, with a great post like that, you are becoming one of those that is helping others with your posts!

I have come to believe that many if not most of the reaction from TBM’s towards NOM’s or ex-Mormons is rooted in fear. I tend to think that someone that is really solid in their own faith/beliefs would be willing to have a calm discussion with a NOM or Ex-Mo as they are not threatened by someone else having a differing belief. When a member meets another member they feel validated that someone else agrees with their belief.

And I think the opposite is true. Two ex-Mo’s meet and they share an instant bond and feel validated that someone else believes as they do. An ex-Mo that feels comfortable with their beliefs isn’t threatened by someone that is a TBM.

I find that it helps me not look down on others and realized we are all just trying to figure this out and when we find something that “works” we are very worried about losing it and defend against anybody we think might change our minds.

Well said Katzpur, I really feel the same way and depend on stay lds very much . This site seems to be a safe place to vent and receive encouragement !!! I appreciate all the members .

I wish I posted more here (or at all, really), but let me give my heartfelt thanks to those regular posters on this board who have literally given me hope when the world looked hopeless. I lurk on this site EVERY SINGLE DAY, and it has helped me immensely in my new spiritual journey. Anyhoo, I was researching “New Order Mormons” and I stumbled upon a blog about the topic written by a TBM. It was a mostly benign article, asking about this “new group” she had heard about but didn’t understand. I noticed that there were like 175 comments. Since it was a TBM blog, I was interested in how TBM’s felt about those who have issues with church doctrine but WANT TO STAY ACTIVE. I expected there would be some ignorance but mostly people wanting to help anyone who actually WANTS to stay in the church, stay. I was wrong. Instead I saw well-intentioned ignorance, misunderstanding, and judgment. I might have been one who chimed in likewise a year ago. But some were outright hostile towards any non-believers who want to stay but openly NOT believing all the doctrines as they are understood in Stage 3. The comments ranged from “These fence-sitters are just cafeteria Mormons who are trying to get off easy” to “Crap or get off the pot! You’re either in or you’re out”. There was a sense with many of them of “I’m doing and believing and sacrificing, and you should too to claim membership”. A 100% commitment to believing EVERYTHING is still expected.

It’s a good example of Stage 3 being over-prone to black-and-white thinking. There was one recurring theme that most of the TBM’s had in their comments: they felt threatened by people who expressed doubt or questioned anything about the perfection of the church, and that “these people” should just leave rather than being lukewarm fence-sitters. I get the feeling that some are more concerned that those “nonbelievers” will influence others to doubt and disbelieve than they are that they might actually want to help them stay. I can understand the difficulty of being comfortable having people there who openly doubt or disbelieve church doctrine or practices, because disbelief is, by definition, a threat to belief! There were a few commenters like us who defended the plight of the disbelieving, but I just read over and over “These people need to read their scriptures, pray, and follow the prophet!”, as if “people like us” have never considered doing that. Some have spent years and decades doing that to no avail. What then? Just leave? Yet I would have said the exact same thing a year ago! it really hit home that Stage 3 Mormons are incapable of understanding how it actually is for us. It’s not a bash. Being a man, I am incapable of understanding what it is like to give birth. I can say whatever I want about how birthing should feel, but the new mother can ignore my opinions without guilt, knowing better. Stage 3, black and white is safe, clear, and a viable way to live a fulfilling life. But ultimately, unable to handle hard evidence contrary to previous thinking. That would move the believer into a VERY uncomfortable Stage 4. When grey appeared, I felt like I had no choice but to question everything I once “knew”. I did not choose to question my beliefs. The challenge came from outside myself.

I do love the people of the church, I always have. TBM’s are definitely good and great people, and generally people I love being around and serving with, and when the harsher article comments were called out by those of our persuasion, and they did apologize for their harshness, but stood by their veiwpoints. Thanks for listening!

Was this the post http://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2012/07/the-threat-of-new-order-mormons/ ?

The WORST response I have ever had to “coming out” was, “Why don’t you just have your name removed from Church records?” And when I explained why, it was used as evidence that deep down I still believed the Church was true.

I had a good friend say that to me. I explained the impact on my family, my children who were believers at the time, and the power of God to change minds over time. The guy who suggested name removal just saw the here and now, and thought I was disloyal. He saw none of the larger surrounding issues .

I used to get offended and almost angry when people came out with unbelieving stuff. I had the attitude to just write them off as well. So, I get it – – some people get offended when you come out with doubting comments. It’s like you are attacking their identity, and it can lead to anger.

Now that I have eaten from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, I would never go judgmental on someone’s head because they are having faith or commitment issues. We have a hard church with a lot of flaws — and sometimes, the church brings this on because of its own behavior! why hold people/doubters accountable for that!

The church would do well to create an open forum for doubters and train the believers to not be dismissive of other people’s doubts. Sure, horses and steel in the BoM might not be a big deal to some people, but they are to others.

In general the church (as an entity/leadership) fears doubters and TBMs fear doubters. I’m not completely sure why, but I am sure some of it has to do with ignoring the man behind the curtain.

On the other hand, by fearing us they close themselves off to some truths. In that respect I’m not sure they’re on the right track.

There is indeed power in the dark side, but there also needs to be balance. That balance is possible but not if the dark side is concealed or hidden. Such imbalance led to the demise of the Jedi.