New ward, new you?

New ward and new starts are great. You’re in a good position to do as you want and set boundaries.

I think the thing with your husband being seen as the one “pulling your family away” is kind of an old school traditional view of things because everybody knows women are more spiritual than men. And it’s hogwash. Granted the ink probably doesn’t help but it is what it is. Jesus hung out with sinners, harlots, and publicans – you and your husband are relatively tame in that respect. I might not be shy about pointing to key ward leaders out how judgemental this might be. There is no TR question “Do you have a tattoo?” although there may be something in some handbook – but it’s still not a question.

So to answer your question, even if my answer is lame and others will do better. Keep doing what you’re doing. You might have to be a little assertive and maybe not answer the door – eventually they’ll get it. You could also be proactive with your bishop and set up an appointment to go and meet him, very nicely setting some boundaries. Leadership roulette plays a part there, but a good one will honor your requests and pass them along to the WC (and you might still risk becoming a project). And sometimes we need to be very assertive as in “I told you before we don’t do Sunday visits and despite your good intentions this really bothers me, so please honor my wishes” or maybe even “I’ve seen people leave the church for less than this.” Honestly I’d ditch the phone call thing – in their minds that means they can still come if they call as opposed to no, they can’t ever come on Sunday.

I try hard to assume the most charitable circumstances possible for people that interact with me. This is for my own personal sanity. I just assume that most people are busy, preoccupied, unaware, and even a little clueless.

As for the ward contacting you, my cell phone number is listed for the household contact and I get calls all the time for people wanting to talk to DW. I hardly ever get contacted by church members myself (not that I want to be contacted, usually they want something… :lolno: ). I assume that part of this can be explained by differences in how the men and women organizations operate in the church. DW gets called at least monthly by the compassionate service leader and the feed the missionaries coordinator – I never get those calls. Actually I do get the call and then they ask for my wife and then I give them her cell phone number. 😆 She gets invited to relief society activities. I do not think we have any EQ activities. Even when we have father and sun campout, it is up to you to look at the stake calendar. I have never been personally invited

As for boundaries, I believe that they are important and healthy. With the church it can be important to understand how you will contribute/ be imposed on by the church and how you will not. It may be helpful even to push for the calling that you would do rather than repeatedly saying no to what you won’t.

I also believe that there is benefit to building on common beliefs. This means that if other people assume that because I am Mormon I believe in XYZ, I will not tell them otherwise. There can be more than one way to Mormon, but people are not going to thank me if I am too flagrant in our differences.

Finally, I have had to accept somewhat of a second class citizenship in the church. I believe that this is the natural consequence of my not being “all in”. I am not in the “inner circle”. I establish boundaries and the church more or less honors those boundaries and a little distance is created. I have come to accept my own “arms length” relationship to the church.

I hope that makes sense and is helpful in some measure.

You’ve set some good boundaries there so far, and made them known. Keep doing what you’re doing. People will need to be reminded though and it’s not like you can tell the bishop something and everyone in the ward will get it and abide by it. You’ll have to set the boundaries with everyone individually.

I’m not a fan of the pop in visit. Even as a former HT i didn’t like to do it. So the Sunday morning thing, of you’ve told people already, just don’t answer there door. They’ll get it eventually, might need a reminder though.

I live in socal, so I don’t get the aversion to tattoos. Maybe it’s just me but I don’t see them as a problem or taboo.

Keep it up!

There is no TR question “Do you have a tattoo?” although there may be something in some handbook – but it’s still not a question.

There’s nothing in either handbook, from what I can find. However, True to the Faith is pretty clear: “Latter-day prophets strongly discourage the tattooing of the body. Those who disregard this counsel show a lack of respect for themselves and for God.” There’s also Ensign articles and a page about tattoos and missions.

We both have tattoos that we have gotten within the past 6 months or so, and we feel very different about tattoos (obviously) than the church at large. Mainly that they can have cultural, spiritual, and personal meaning and can thoughtfully adorn our bodies rather than defiling them. But we knew when we got them that they would cause raised eyebrows or more. Mine are covered unless I’m in a tank top- which it so happens I was during the 2 separate drop-in visits within the past 3 days- one visit at 9:15 at night, oh dear. So maybe with that we’ll see less stigmatization of my husband, but who knows?

Honestly I’d ditch the phone call thing – in their minds that means they can still come if they call as opposed to no, they can’t ever come on Sunday.

I should have been more clear- we don’t do visits on Sunday. If someone would like to visit another day of the week, we would like a phone call beforehand.

I like your idea of talking to the bishop and setting boundaries to be passed on to the WC. That way, anyone in WC (and the people in their stewardship who would be asked to visit us) would know our boundaries, even if they choose not to honor them.

Thanks!

Forgive my multiple posts as replies. I hate typing on my phone, but my computer isn’t as handy to quote with.

I try hard to assume the most charitable circumstances possible for people that interact with me. This is for my own personal sanity. I just assume that most people are busy, preoccupied, unaware, and even a little clueless.

I’m trying- it’s difficult when you see behavior that is remarkably different than previous wards (and we’ve been in 2 dozen) repeated in multiple wards. My perception of the possible assumptions towards my husband are bothering me- because the stereotype that is assumed is not at all what is happening with us. I don’t want to be seen as the saintly wife who is standing by her heathen husband. I need to work on (a) giving more benefit of the doubt and (b) just not caring.

As for boundaries, I believe that they are important and healthy. With the church it can be important to understand how you will contribute/ be imposed on by the church and how you will not. It may be helpful even to push for the calling that you would do rather than repeatedly saying no to what you won’t.

I don’t know what to do about a calling. I was asked over the phone by BP1C if I would accept a Sunday-only calling to partner-teach youth. He told me not to say no over the phone but that I could say yes over the phone. I had tried to tell him no as I had planned on not holding a calling for a while due to mental health stresses, still unpacking, starting a new job, etc. and wanted to find balance first. He called/texted a few days later while I was at work asking for an answer, and I told him I didn’t have one yet. I don’t know what calling I would do right now- the thought gives me anxiety on a number of levels.

I also believe that there is benefit to building on common beliefs. This means that if other people assume that because I am Mormon I believe in XYZ, I will not tell them otherwise. There can be more than one way to Mormon, but people are not going to thank me if I am too flagrant in our differences.

I absolutely agree. At church, I tend to be quiet if I disagree/don’t believe in a statement and contribute on common testimony. The exception is when someone says something that can actually hurt others- such as the RS comments from the SP’s wife that “Those people who have depression can’t even feel the Spirit” and “They keep putting these medications into their bodies that do more harm than good, when they should just pray more and get some exercise.” I speak up (kindly, I hope) on those things because it is actively hurting people we should be loving, and I have the experience and knowledge to back up my statements.

Finally, I have had to accept somewhat of a second class citizenship in the church. I believe that this is the natural consequence of my not being “all in”. I am not in the “inner circle”. I establish boundaries and the church more or less honors those boundaries and a little distance is created. I have come to accept my own “arms length” relationship to the church.

I hope that makes sense and is helpful in some measure.

I agree and feel the same. I’m alright with 2nd class citizenship, I’d prefer an arms length relationship. I’m not as comfortable with the stigmatization towards my husband and kids because of my not being “all in” (though my husband is in the same boat as me on actions, if not beliefs)

That made sense and was helpful. I so appreciate the reminder to give benefit of the doubt and see through lenses of love instead of judgement, and trying to assume that others are striving for that as well. I needed that.

and it’s not like you can tell the bishop something and everyone in the ward will get it and abide by it. You’ll have to set the boundaries with everyone individually.

True, very true.

I’m not a fan of the pop in visit. Even as a former HT i didn’t like to do it. So the Sunday morning thing, of you’ve told people already, just don’t answer there door. They’ll get it eventually, might need a reminder though.

Sunday morning is probably easy enough to screen calls and visits, but it is more difficult the rest of the week. There’s construction adjacent to our home, we get UPS packages, etc- there are time sensitive issues that require me to answer the door. I work from home some days- I’m not a fan of getting interrupted for a friendly getting-to-know-you chat, while I would welcome it at church.

I live in socal, so I don’t get the aversion to tattoos. Maybe it’s just me but I don’t see them as a problem or taboo.

It’s such a *thing* where we’ve lived- one friend asked me to tell her “why I would feel the need to do that” and kept me at arm’s length for a bit, my dad said “it’s not hard to just not get one, you just don’t get one”, another good friend asked why I felt the need to directly disobey a prophet. My mom would lose it- I have to tell her at some point, I’m sure, as it’s visible in a bathing suit and we swim as a family every so often. Incidentally, she knows about my husband’s and has deemed it ok because he was military, as long he didn’t get more than one. Similar approval towards him from other friends and family who know his background.

But we knew this and chose to get them anyway; I need to remember that.

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TL;DR: in a new ward, how do you set boundaries and expectations?

Make it about what you are willing to DO in the church. Not about what you believe, not that you are “a bit different”, not that you need to protect your testimony. All those things are like tip of the icebergs that signal problems beneath. That is why I think the Bp pursued you.

So, if they want you to take a calling, you always have a really good reason. Not a testimony-based or culture-based or doctrinally-based reason, a practical one.

Also, always affirm your testimony of the church to the extent you can when cornered or even occasionally in meetings. Even if it’s the hum of spirituality you have felt at different times, even though now, intellectually you are not much of a believer (this is general advice, not tailored to your state of belief on the spectrum). I can still comment on how I felt the spirit when I asked if I should join the church. I can still comment on how great the church is in providing environments where youth can come together and strengthen their values. Also, I had some good experiences teaching the gospel as a missionary. I can refer to those with integrity even though my overall positivity to the church due to more recent experiences is not what it once was.

BYU is a great achievement both financially, academically, and for helping parents feel their kids will be in a morally safe environment during those sensitive years. I know the culture bugs some, but I was happy to let my daughter get exposed to it if it meant she was going to be free of guys hitting on her sexually all the time, or encouraging alcohol overconsumption etcetera.

What are your affirmations? Share those.

And then keep the concerns to yourself. I find this site is my primary outlet for sharing the balanced view of what I think, without fear of censure so long as it’s not anti-Mormon (and I don’t consider myself anti-Mormon).

If they do press to the point you HAVE to give a reason, your reasons for not serving are based on something other than lack of belief or testimony. And they are reasons the Bp and Ward can’t resolve. Not reasons that require counsel, can be fixed with bread and cookies and visits to the home, but issues that are beyond the scope of our lay ministry or resources. And there are a LOT of problems like that. Always give vague hope of full TR holding or other transformations if you aren’t full-on the textbook “good standing” wagon.

My version of the “unresolvable problem that sets boundaries” is that service in the church affected my health and happiness. Even though I have a testimony, I found myself miserable in it for various reasons. And that I found joy and variety in community service instead. Also, how I was rejected from a job application because I didn’t have any management experience, when I had 20 years of leadership in stake and wards the interviewer didn’t accept as valid. I indicated I needed to get more leadership experience in volunteer BUSINESS contexts for my career, as it was at an impasse. So, I’m still testimony-laden, just directing my service to a different organization FOR THE TIME BEING (vague hope at work).

The BP left me alone after that. He couldn’t solve those problems.

So, he left the meeting thinking “SD has a testimony right now who I guess he isn’t a good fit for service in our church at this time. Keep being nice to him and don’t take him for granted”.

Be active by attending church regularly or semi-regularly, supporting any children and spouses, and be one of those people “with potential” who never blooms. Let the leadership approach you about ordinances for your children. I hold back until they ask ME to do it, so at least I know they are going to let me (probably). This requires patience, but so far it’s worked.

If you seem to want something from the church, it tends to want to extract something from you in return. You want to baptize your son? Pay tithing for a while please! If not tithing, they want information about your situation! You want to ordain your son to a priesthood office? Get a TR! Not always, but I have heard of these things happening due to leadership roulette. People post them on this site.

If the PP wants to come over to welcome to the kids, I would thank her and ask if you can set aside some time at church, or arrange an appointment during the week…When the BP gave me 20 families to HT, I told them no, give me 5, and they did. When they kept extending callings I didn’t want, I kept saying “no” until they came out with something that excited me.

That’s my plan. I think if you can accept that the local Ward is not a place to share your deepest feelings about the church, and that you are simply trying to not rock the boat, it becomes easier. When you feel you want acceptance in the midst of naked unorthodoxy, you’re going to be frustrated — you wont’ get it! You can get it here, though, and I find this site satisfies my need for community, and the church experience satisfies my need to still be a Mormon without necessarily buying into everything.