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May 7, 2018 at 2:50 am #212088
Anonymous
GuestHow do you explain a prophet’s role to your kids? My almost 7 year old greeted me after primary today singing “Follow the Prophet” and waving a homemade sign from her teacher, complete with a plastic straw stick. It has a picture of President Nelson and the words “Follow the Prophet.” I was having visions of the primary kids marching in line, signs in the air, singing of their devotion to the prophet, and it made me very uncomfortable. I believe President Nelson is a good man. I believe he has good intentions. I even believe he receives revelation from the Lord on some things. But I certainly don’t believe that everything he says is from the Lord. And the idea of unquestioningly following the prophet as though he always knows the way disturbs me greatly because I have seen it cause serious harm. But do I share this with my daughter? I suppose her Dad and I teach her to obey us unquestioningly so maybe this is the same deal and we will talk about the nuance when she is older? Although she does know already that her parents don’t know everything, so maybe I should point out to her that the prophet doesn’t either, only God. What do you all think? May 7, 2018 at 4:24 am #328895Anonymous
GuestThat’s a tough one. I don’t know your daughters mental comprehension skills. But I did find this little quote helpful in making wiggle room for prophetic infallibility. (though that is not what he intended.) Quote:He said one of the great lessons of his 93-year life is that people are God’s children and he speaks to them.
“It’s no different for you than it is for me,” he said. “You can get personal revelation for your own circumstances, just as naturally as I can for my circumstances. You get it for your family and yourself, and I get it for the whole church.”
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900016023/dowry-is-not-the-lords-way-in-kenya-lds-president-nelson-says-tithing-breaks-poverty-cycle.html ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900016023/dowry-is-not-the-lords-way-in-kenya-lds-president-nelson-says-tithing-breaks-poverty-cycle.html I would plan for the long game on this one. Taking small steps. I would even start with a simple, “Honey, for me, I look to Jesus Christ.” Maybe even share an example from Jesus that guides you. Then say a prophet in the bible was turning people to Jesus. Let her sit with that for a while. You can build on it over the years.
You can even hand her back the song, “I am trying to be like Jesus.”
May 7, 2018 at 4:25 am #328896Anonymous
GuestMy suggestion: You need to break the Black & White dichotemy. Lemony Snicket wrote:“People aren’t either wicked or noble. They’re like chef’s salads, with good things and bad things chopped and mixed together in a vinaigrette of confusion and conflict.”
One of the ways you can do this, is by acknowledging your own faults and shortcomings. Another, is by pointing out the good you can learn from someone, or some principle you vehemently disagree with in most areas. For example… the Romans held the pagan goddess Fortuna, which you might fundamentally disagree with. But she was the goddess of fortune, and by focusing on her they recognized how real little control they had over their lives, and how little they actually earned or deserved what came their way. Remembering Fortuna kept them humble. Other routes you could go… Nationalism, communism, social darwinism, Donald Trump, traditional gender roles… no matter how bad your knee-jerk reaction is to any of these, no matter how much you despise them, there is always a token of wisdom buried deep (sometimes
VERYdeep) beneath the surface. The lesson to teach, is to judge a message based on its own merit. A good message is still good no matter who or where it came from. A bad message, the same.
May 7, 2018 at 11:53 am #328897Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:
My suggestion: You need to break the Black & White dichotemy.Lemony Snicket wrote:“People aren’t either wicked or noble. They’re like chef’s salads, with good things and bad things chopped and mixed together in a vinaigrette of confusion and conflict.”
One of the dangers in that is that it leads to moral relativism. Yes, this is true up to a point, but there ARE people who are much more wicked or noble than each other. Both of us probably sit somewhere in the middle, but you can’t equate Father Damien who worked selflessly with the lepers in Molokai with Ted Bundy (although if you see some of the interviews with Bundy they are extremely interesting and he does explain part of how he was corrupted by violent pornography).
May 7, 2018 at 1:51 pm #328898Anonymous
GuestSamBee wrote:
One of the dangers in that is that it leads to moral relativism.
How?
May 7, 2018 at 1:52 pm #328899Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:
SamBee wrote:
One of the dangers in that is that it leads to moral relativism.
How?
Because it ends up with shades of gray, when certain behavior puts you more firmly into one category or the other.
May 7, 2018 at 2:29 pm #328900Anonymous
GuestSamBee wrote:
Because it ends up with shades of gray, when certain behavior puts you more firmly into one category or the other.
Moral relativism is refusing to label actions as good or bad. I’m refusing to label people. No matter how terrible a person’s actions, it doesn’t negate all the good in their life. And no matter how great a person’s actions, it doesn’t negate the bad.
May 7, 2018 at 6:47 pm #328901Anonymous
GuestTwo other very applicable examples I thought of, for people we might fundamentally disagree with, but where some level of goodness can still be found: 1. Genghis Khan: Bloodthirsty raider, killed his half brother… and was one of the strongest advocates for freedom of religion of his time. All religions were to be respected, none preferred, and both clergy and all other public servants received tax-exemption status.
2. Vikings: Bloodthirsty pagan raiders and slavers… who granted near-equal rights to women, including the ownership of property, fair inheritance, sue for divorce (and recoup dowry) with ease, and manage their own land, finances, and business. Also, violence against viking women was strictly forbidden, even in raids against rival Nords.
May 7, 2018 at 9:13 pm #328902Anonymous
GuestI believe that there is a developmentally appropriate time and place to share. For my younger children, I believe it is important to help them feel safe. We teach them about parents, teachers, police officers and other trusted adults in a support network that are there to help the child. There are exceptions. Some individuals are not helpful. Conversely some generally good individuals can sometimes do uncharacteristically bad acts.
I try to teach my children that if they are hurting they can turn to these individuals – also if anybody ever is hurting them (including someone from this group) they can turn to someone that they trust from this group.
I suppose I do not mind the LDS church president fulfilling a similar role as the other “trusted adults” in my children’s lives.
May 7, 2018 at 10:01 pm #328903Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:
SamBee wrote:
Because it ends up with shades of gray, when certain behavior puts you more firmly into one category or the other.
Moral relativism is refusing to label actions as good or bad. I’m refusing to label people. No matter how terrible a person’s actions, it doesn’t negate all the good in their life. And no matter how great a person’s actions, it doesn’t negate the bad.
I disagree. If you’re raising a child, and they have great fun with you one day and then you assault them the next, then the bad certainly does cancel out the good.
There is definitely a ripple effect in good and bad actions, much of but not all the time. They often lead and inspire you or others into other actions which are better and worse. The interplay of good and bad makes things complicated though.
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