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May 25, 2018 at 1:39 am #212112
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GuestDuring GD last week it was mentioned that we were some of the chosen people which made me cringe a little, but then one upstanding fellow spoke up and exclaimed “…remember now, our missionaries are out there teaching that we are chosen people…” That made me pucker up in several different places. I wanted to say that if you’re going to say that, say it with a note of caution not to offend or put us all in a place where bad things can happen. Am I paranoid? It may not bother some but it kinda ruined the rest of the day for me. if anything we have chosento adopt a Christ centered life with covenants and all that goes with it and we have been adopted for that. Sounds like saying we won the tournament because God was with us. May 25, 2018 at 2:20 am #329232Anonymous
GuestWe had this lesson during SS as well and I hate to report that it had many a Rameumptomesque moment.
Kipper wrote:
if anythingwe have chosento adopt a Christ centered life with covenants and all that goes with it and we have been adopted for that.
I like this framing much better.
May 25, 2018 at 2:22 am #329233Anonymous
GuestFiddler on the Roof, Tevye wrote:“I know, I know. We are Your chosen people. But, once in a while, can’t You choose someone else?”
May 25, 2018 at 3:04 pm #329234Anonymous
GuestWilliam Norman Ewer once wrote “How odd of God/To choose the Jews.” Someone replied –
“But not so odd/ As those who choose/ A Jewish God/ Yet spurn the Jew”
May 25, 2018 at 3:53 pm #329235Anonymous
GuestChosen people rhetoric rises and falls regularly within religions. The New Testament is a great example of that within Christianity, since it went from strictly and exclusively the Jews to those Jews who chose to follow Jesus to anyone who chose to follow Jesus. Within many religions and denominations it is strict and exclusive (“Only people who believe what we believe are chosen/can be saved.”), while others have inclusive, universal wording (Unitarian Universalist, Buddhism, etc.). Mormonism is a fairly unique combination of both (“We are chosen, but potentially so is everyone else who has ever lived – and we have no clue ultimately who will be chosen and who won’t be.”). We are closer to Catholicism in that regard than to mainstream Protestantism.
There also is a fundamental difference among religions about who does the choosing. There are those that teach God chooses (with the hardcore Calvinist idea that God predestines and the JW interpretation that narrows it to only 144,000 – a small minority of JWs); there are those that teach people choose (which some call a “work” and others don’t see as a work); and there are some who don’t call it a choice at all but rather just a universal process.
There are those who believe in a one-time choice that lasts forever, those who believe later choices can cancel earlier choices, and, again, those who don’t believe in fully free choice at all (because God does it for us: Calvinism, or because choice doesn’t matter in the eternal long run: Buddhism).
Mormonism is unique in that it can allow almost all of those views, since almost all of them have been taught to some degree by leaders at some point. I personally lean toward the idea that all people are chosen (symbolized in the War in Heaven narrative that says everyone who is born made a choice to accept God’s plan for them) and that God has “all eternity” to make it work in the end.
May 25, 2018 at 6:39 pm #329236Anonymous
GuestOther than not really believing there are chosen people, the problem I have with us being said chosen people is that it so often leads to pridefulness among some of us. While not always explicitly stated (but it is sometimes explicitly stated) I often hear that we are better than our Christian brothers and sisters (or any other religion) because we are chosen or we are members of the “true church.” That is the bad kind of pride. The other issue I have is the prosperity gospel aspect of being chosen, and what it leads to when people figure it out.
May 25, 2018 at 7:19 pm #329237Anonymous
GuestDarkJedi wrote:
Other than not really believing there are chosen people, the problem I have with us being said chosen people is that it so often leads to pridefulness among some of us. While not always explicitly stated (but it is sometimes explicitly stated) I often hear that we are better than our Christian brothers and sisters (or any other religion) because we are chosen or we are members of the “true church.” That is the bad kind of pride.The other issue I have is the prosperity gospel aspect of being chosen, and what it leads to when people figure it out.
This was a great reply to follow Old-Timer who talked about what it means to be chosen. I realize my issue is not the understanding who are chosen and why so much as proclaiming it. It sounds prideful and I think history shows it could lead to bad things. Just my opinion, with a better understanding of all this and my own feelings I can respond with a cautionary tone when I hear or see this happening.
May 25, 2018 at 7:52 pm #329238Anonymous
GuestConversely – my cringe moment with the Chosen People mantra runs along Tevya’s line (Thank you Dande). In all of history, “The Chosen” person/people often suffer the most. I hate suffering. I don’t do it well. I run from it when I can. When we sit in class and are pulling our invisible “I am Chosen” shirt I panic. It’s a great motivator when we are being driven from Nauvoo, but I really don’t want to be a target.
So many religious leaders were killed for being Chosen, whether it was translating scripture, creating scripture, living scripture, etc. Some times they were martyred twice. Bones dug up and reburned to make sure all the remnant was gone.
For me it’s a trigger phrase.
May 25, 2018 at 10:13 pm #329239Anonymous
Guestmom3 wrote:
Conversely – my cringe moment with the Chosen People mantra runs along Tevya’s line (Thank you Dande). In all of history, “The Chosen” person/people often suffer the most.I hate suffering. I don’t do it well. I run from it when I can. When we sit in class and are pulling our invisible “I am Chosen” shirt I panic. It’s a great motivator when we are being driven from Nauvoo, but I really don’t want to be a target.
So many religious leaders were killed for being Chosen, whether it was translating scripture, creating scripture, living scripture, etc. Some times they were martyred twice. Bones dug up and reburned to make sure all the remnant was gone.
For me it’s a trigger phrase.
This is where I was headed.
May 26, 2018 at 11:31 pm #329240Anonymous
Guest^^^^^^^^^^^ Kipper – I say we make “Not Chosen” shirts. May 27, 2018 at 5:21 am #329241Anonymous
Guestmom3 wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^ Kipper – I say we make “Not Chosen” shirts.
You’re a rascal
June 2, 2018 at 10:12 pm #329242Anonymous
GuestKipper wrote:fellow spoke up and exclaimed “…remember now, our missionaries are out there teaching that we are chosen people…” That made me pucker up in several different places. I wanted to say that if you’re going to say that, say it with a note of caution not to offend or put us all in a place where bad things can happen. Am I paranoid?
I think we forget what “chosen” means. i would have probably made this point to the person in the class insinuating that because we are members or the church or holders of the priesthood there is some elevated status or specialness to mormons.Per the Bible Dictionary:
Quote:Being an heir to the Abrahamic covenant does not make one a “chosen person” per se but does signify that such are chosen to responsibly carry the gospel to all the peoples of the earth. Abraham’s seed have carried out the missionary activity in all the nations since Abraham’s day. (Matt. 3:9; Abr. 2:9–11.)
We’re chosen to go do missionary work, with a promised blessing for doing so. I think missionaries get that wrong a lot and need to be corrected, as do other members of the church.It’s all coming from a very stage 3 construct…us vs them. But it can be conjunctive…anyone can be adopted into the chosen people, there are few exclusions to volunteers that meet the standards.
I think I’ll put in an order for the shirt Dande and mom3 are making. I’d rather not be chosen. I’m happy to let others be chosen to do more work.
But for sure…I never want my kids growing up thinking they are more special than non-member friends, or God loves them more. That concept may creep into religious creeds, but it isn’t gospel truth.
June 2, 2018 at 11:59 pm #329243Anonymous
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[img]https://i.imgur.com/pgWk4qg.gif [/img] June 3, 2018 at 12:43 am #329244Anonymous
GuestMany are cold but few are frozen. June 3, 2018 at 2:01 am #329245Anonymous
GuestSamBee wrote:
Many are cold but few are frozen.
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