- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
dande48 wrote:
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
I heard a lecture by Alan Watts, a 60s new age philosopher, on the nature of god. He proposed that God pushed a ‘random existence generator button’, and here we are; living this existence, all of us gods who don’t remember pushing the button.
Alan Watts was quite a guy! I hadn’t heard that particular lecture, but he’s given quite a few that follows along those lines. He’s really helped me to come to terms with, and be ok even if there is no “afterlife”, as we call it. I remember a lecture, where he states that Jesus’ greatest epitome, the height of his doctrine, was “I am a child of God, and so are all of you”. That really there is no you as separate from me, as we are all simply aspects of one great whole. This mind and body, yes, will come to an end. But since I’m the universe, I can’t really die. My death is not much more than the death of a cell, or the shedding of skin. The whole remains, to experience itself (my self), again and again, countless times at once, and countless more again.
I really like these concepts. They get me thinking and broaden my perspectives. On the surface these are easily chocked off as new age mumbo jumbo, but the effect of thinking about the afterlife/current existence without the constraints of dogma is lifting to the soul. In the words of JS: it feels so good not to be trammeled.
A five minute talk by Alan Watts on “Why Society Needs Outsiders”. LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
I really like these concepts. They get me thinking and broaden my perspectives. On the surface these are easily chocked off as new age mumbo jumbo, but the effect of thinking about the afterlife/current existence without the constraints of dogma is lifting to the soul.
It might seem new age, but it honestly looks like the default option. We know the universe came into existance. We know that we were made from the matter of the universe, matter which existed long before “we” did, and matter which will continue to be a part of that same universe long after we are gone. We also know that the matter that was organized into our “selves” has somehow become conscious, and will one day no longer be conscious, but that other “selves” created from the same stock of matter have existed before us, and will probably continue to exist long after.
The concept of our immortal spirit “selves”, the continuation of consciousness before and after death, the loving and anthropomorphic Creator… that’s all metaphysical. It may or may not be true. But the basic truths, which Alan Watts emphasized, are comforting to me.
SamBee wrote:
– I disagree about drugs with him given how many are destroyed by them –
He did drink and womanize quite a lot… it wasn’t very Buddhist of him. But he did have quite a few incredible insights, and was very skilled at teaching. I guess a tree can bare good fruit and bad.
dande48 wrote:
SamBee wrote:
– I disagree about drugs with him given how many are destroyed by them –
He did drink and womanize quite a lot… it wasn’t very Buddhist of him. But he did have quite a few incredible insights, and was very skilled at teaching. I guess a tree can bare good fruit and bad.
This… but I suppose it depends how far someone leans one way or another.
As I’ve pointed out elsewhere, some people even me, have found some interesting things in Scientology… we juat don’t want the full package.
dande48 wrote:
LDS_Scoutmaster wrote:
I really like these concepts. They get me thinking and broaden my perspectives. On the surface these are easily chocked off as new age mumbo jumbo, but the effect of thinking about the afterlife/current existence without the constraints of dogma is lifting to the soul.
It might seem new age, but it honestly looks like the default option. We know the universe came into existance. We know that we were made from the matter of the universe, matter which existed long before “we” did, and matter which will continue to be a part of that same universe long after we are gone. We also know that the matter that was organized into our “selves” has somehow become conscious, and will one day no longer be conscious, but that other “selves” created from the same stock of matter have existed before us, and will probably continue to exist long after.
The concept of our immortal spirit “selves”, the continuation of consciousness before and after death, the loving and anthropomorphic Creator… that’s all metaphysical. It may or may not be true. But the basic truths, which Alan Watts emphasized, are comforting to me.
I grew up in the church always hearing what a comfort it is to know the plan of salvation. And how sad we feel for those who don’t know what is next after we die, and that we are still on selves and can be with our families.How do you think some find it “ok” or not scary to think we cease to exist? How do they find peace or call their fears of death?
Heber13 wrote:
How do you think some find it “ok” or not scary to think we cease to exist? How do they find peace or call their fears of death?
There are lots of factors. How satisfied are you with your life? Are you clinically depressed? What are your beliefs about the afterlife, is it a time when all wrongs will magically be made right? Do you believe the afterlife will be a time where you are rewarded for hardships you have endured in life? etc.
Heber13 wrote:
I grew up in the church always hearing what a comfort it is to know the plan of salvation. And how sad we feel for those who don’t know what is next after we die, and that we are still on selves and can be with our families.How do you think some find it “ok” or not scary to think we cease to exist? How do they find peace or call their fears of death?
I think it’s understandable for people to believe they know what happens after we die, even though I really don’t think they do. IMHO, the sources pointing towards the plan of salvation aren’t exactly reliable, but it does give a lot of comfort to those who have a hard time letting go. Or maybe that belief is what keeps people from “letting go”. Who’s to say?
I think expectations can really wear on a person, if they are not met; but when we come to terms with “the worst”, we’ll find that we’ll be ok. Many “believers” have painted this awful, grim picture of the perspective of unbelievers. Don’t believe in God or the afterlife? You are depressed, miserable, immoral, selfish, greedy… your life will be without purpose, and you’ll probably end up hanging yourself. The “believers” have invested so much into their beliefs, depended on them for so much for so long, that for many it is impossible to consider they might be wrong. But if you take a moment and consider “what if?”, it’s really not that bad. In fact, considering that this life and your time might be all that you get… doesn’t that make you see the beauty of it, and appreciate it more?
If there is a God and an afterlife, I’ll be pleasantly suprised.
[img=https://larrydixon.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/screen-shot-2015-11-01-at-9-26-24-pm.png][/img] If not, meh, I’ll take it anyways.
I’m a huge C&H fan. Thanks for that!! It’s actually a very good response…I’ll take it anyway…because…we are here, now.
Heber13 wrote:
I’m a huge C&H fan. Thanks for that!!It’s actually a very good response…I’ll take it anyway…because…we are here, now.
I am also a Calvin & Hobbes fan. But most of the members I know are more like Calvin in this case – doing what they’re doing only because of the reward.
DarkJedi wrote:
Heber13 wrote:
I’m a huge C&H fan. Thanks for that!!It’s actually a very good response…I’ll take it anyway…because…we are here, now.
I am also a Calvin & Hobbes fan. But most of the members I know are more like Calvin in this case – doing what they’re doing only because of the reward.
Hmm… it’s only just dawned on me that they’re named after philosophers – well, theologian in Calvin’s case.
DarkJedi wrote:
I am also a Calvin & Hobbes fan. But most of the members I know are more like Calvin in this case – doing what they’re doing only because of the reward.
IMHO, I think most members “think” that… I’ve heard too many times (and said it a few times myself) that without my testimony of the Church, I don’t know where I’d be, but I’d be quite the terrible person. It gets implied that our belief in God and the afterlife is all that is keeping us moral. But what surprised me, was after going through my faith crisis, my morality stayed roughly the same, though my reasons are more fundamental; good for the sake of being good. Service for the sake of helping others. Etc. I think most members who are banking on the next life to “make everything right” would still be good people even if they lost faith in their eternal rewards.
I agree, Dande, and my experience is similar to yours in that my morality has stayed essentially the same. Of course that’s really because of things we somehow learned before we can remember learning anything but it is what it is. I didn’t mean to imply that those who pay tithing as fire insurance or are otherwise trying to buy their stairway to heaven are cursed or will be worse off than anyone else. I think we’re all going to be very surprised in the next life (if there is one). Calvin & Hobbs is pure genius. It is the funniest deeply philosophical and sophisticated comic series I have seen. I used it in class when I taught high school history and we got to the Enlightenment. I gave them extra credit for being able to explain the philosophy behind the individual comic strips. The students understood that time period much better than they would have without the connection. I did the same thing with some of the Far Side images. Pure genius.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.