It’s Judgment Day, and You’ve Been Rebuked — what will you say or do?

Why did you make temptation so fun?

Are words necessary?

I would probably nod and move towards that door.

NOTE: This is assuming the following occurred:

a) That the truth that we will participate in the judgement process ourselves is true.

b) That I have an intellectual and emotional understanding that the decree is correct.

Unfortunately I’d probably lie.

“Thanks. You’re welcome in my heaven any time.” [walks off]

Mainly because I view traditional beliefs about judgment as evidence of an abusive relationship.

If my judgment is based on unbelief (in Mormonism, Scientology, Catholicism, or even just humanism): “How can you justify giving out an infinite punishment based on the minuscule amount of information a human being is capable of perceiving and making sense of?”

If my judgment is based on unbelief in any specific religion that claims to speak for God: “How did you allow your one true religion to make itself so untrustworthy?”

If my judgment is based on acts committed or not committed: “How can you justify giving out an infinite punishment based on acts that can have at most finite utility? I want to see the math. Where’s the infinite multiplicative factor? Or are you taking a limit somewhere?”

If my judgment is based on character: “The infinite nature of this punishment seems to require an assumption that I can never change. Why do you assume that?”

If my judgment is based on character: “Rehabilitation is a superior form of justice for mortals. Why isn’t it superior for immortals?”

If my judgment is based on “hardening my heart against the Spirit” or similar: “Why did you try to teach me right from wrong using emotions that are so easy to use to manipulate people into doing evil?”

If Christ is judging: “What are you doing up there in the judge’s chair? Aren’t you supposed to be my defense lawyer? If you’re both, that’s a serious conflict of interest.”

If the Father is judging: “What are you doing up there in the judge’s chair? Aren’t you supposed to be my loving father? If you’re both, that’s a serious conflict of interest at best, and child abuse at worst.”

Honestly, I think most notions of divine judgment are full of holes. They almost certainly exist because inducing internalized shame and fear of eternal rejection tends to get results. Sometimes this is intentional (e.g. as claimed in D&C 19:6-7), and sometimes not. Basically, I’m with nibbler on this.

Still, if Mormon scriptures have it right, I would actually go with this: “I would like my defense lawyer to speak on my behalf.”

Wow Reuben — I am glad you will go out with self-assertiveness. I wanted to say more, like you did, but felt the previous responses that showed humble acceptance of what the judge dispenses kind of shut me up.

I think these are very good questions, although a bit disrespectful as worded. Perhaps this?

I am confused why …. etcetera…

I probably would adopt a humbler attitude in that situation. Still, if God is a perfect father, he should be able to handle a few pointed questions from a frustrated, wounded child.

Here, my questions reflect my profound doubts that a final judgment as understood in Mormon doctrine could possibly happen. It seems that every justification for it makes God impossible, powerless, obsessive, petty, or monstrous.

The only final judgment that makes sense to me is no judgment. It’s the one where God says, “Hey, son. So glad to have you back. Come on inside and we’ll get you fixed up.”

Can god be god and be unjust?

Can god be god and not know the intents of our hearts?

Debating with him at the judgment seat would seem pointless to me.

If I project my fatherly love for my kids….I would always be open to teaching and answering questions they may have, even if punishment still is needed, I’d welcome the opportunity to teach. A perfect father in heaven would too. Not that it would change the judgment but that it would help me understand it.

Hasnt it been said at church that many expect judgment to be us judging ourselves, and maybe Christ making sure we are not too hard on ourselves, after the veil is lifted and we remember all? God”s judgment to us won’t be a surprise, right? Nor will it be an angry, vengeful Court system.

I think the thread started with certain parameters. Based on those, I like to think of the judgment day as a loving one. I think more like Reuben on the grand scheme of things. Just was suspending some of that for the sake of the thread.

If god is just, do you think that he will consign good people, who are trying to be good citizens, good fathers, good people to a lower kingdom that is akin to, in Mormon philosophy, being damned?

I see being “damned” as “be stopped in progression” the way that beavers build dams. This causes me to view everyone as being “damned” or shortened in their efforts to become their best self. This puts me in such esteemed company with the rest of humanity, that I refuse to stress over it anymore. I can only do the best I can do in the time I have to “undamn” myself and continue my progression.

I also refuse to believe that we are just limited to this life to determine our afterlife (if there is one). If God and Jesus Christ are powerful enough to save each and every one of us, I see no reason why they don’t have the power to set up life cycles for as long as it takes to become the best we can be. When I am teaching my kids stuff, I don’t “step in” and make up the difference regarding their education – if they aren’t getting it, we get out another 1-2 or 100 pieces of paper and start over until they have achieved what we set out to do. I don’t focus on it (ie try to set things up so I get a better next life) because I think the point of this life is to do the best I can with what I have. I am not even sure it is an “or” situation – I think we need the concept of the Atonement and grace to get us through this life experience and potentially provide power for the next life experience.