Home Page Forums General Discussion Are My Beliefs Really My Own?

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  • #212190
    Anonymous
    Guest

    This came from a conversation with a friend earlier today. I think it applies perfectly to this site, as well.

    Quote:

    If I don’t understand the positive and negative implications of my beliefs, I don’t understand my beliefs – and, in reality, they are not fully mine.

    Thoughts?

    #330411
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Part of making a belief a part of your personal faith narrative requires studying that belief, and evaluating how many of your resources you wish to and/or are able to devote to it.

    The liberating part of a faith transition for me has been focusing on some fundamentals like the principle of Charity. I am also giving serious thought to ethics and philosophy – what it means to be human (for me personally), and what does it mean to me to believe something (and why).

    The scary thing for me has been for this faith transition – how do I live my beliefs while living with my family?

    The short answer: I don’t know – we do the best we can at the time.

    The medium length answer: “First, do no harm” then “Don’t do something stupid that burns bridges unless you really need those flames”. “Say what needs to be said in common language (sheepese) and stand your ground respectfully (while knowing when to fold’em/retreat as needed)”. In some cases, BE THE CHANGE…

    #330412
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have noticed a number of people share sets of beliefs, but won’t admit they’re unoriginal. New Agers are particularly guilty of it. I remember a group of New Agers accusing me of having “negative energy” because I disagreed with something they all seemed to agree upon!

    On another occasion, I remember a person saying “religion is the opium of the people”. I said to him that Karl Marx didn’t mean what he thought by that… and he had the cheek to say that this was an original thought of his!

    We’re all influenced by each other. I’m influenced by Amy and Curt at some level. I have a reaction to what you say and you have a reaction to them. I might agree and absorb your ideas, or reject them… either way, an influence.

    #330413
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Old Timer wrote:


    If I don’t understand the positive and negative implications of my beliefs, I don’t understand my beliefs – and, in reality, they are not fully mine.

    I think this is mixing a couple of ideas. You will probably never know all the positive and negative implications of your beliefs. Also, thinking an implication is positive or negative is also a belief, which has its own positive or negative implications. And I’m not sure any beliefs are fully belonging to anyone who holds them. We develop beliefs from all sorts of outside sources, and hardly any of them (if any) are truly our own.

    Take for example, as something hopefully non-controversial, birth control. At one point, many people were against birth control on these grounds:

    1. It would make God angry

    2. It would lead to promiscuity and hypersexualization.

    3. It would prevent children from being born into righteous households.

    4. It could cause unforseen health conequences in women.

    5. It would cheapen sex/increase extra-marital sex, by removing negative consequences.

    Etc.

    But others supported it on these grounds:

    1. Allows family planning, allowing couples to adjust the number of children they have according to their circumstances, capabilities, and desires.

    2. Allows couples to enjoy the benefits of sex without being worried about having children.

    3. Allows women to enjoy intimate relationships, while keeping their their aspirations open.

    4. Removes the some of negative consequences of sex.

    5. Keeps children from being born into families that “aren’t ready”, especially teenagers.

    Etc.

    There is some definite overlap in these areas. In fact, depending on what side you fall, the reasons of the other side might seem negative to you, while positive to them, and visa versa. For example, is it the duty of all fertile women to have children? We’d say no, but many who used to oppose birth control (and some who still do) say “yes”. Some are contingent upon beliefs which are unproveable, such as what God wants, or what should be a human right. If we’re talking about “implications of my beliefs”, what exactly is an “implication” is highly up to debate, depending on what you value, and what other beliefs you hold.

    #330414
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Unfortunately most of those arguments against birth control are true. You could throw demographic collapse in there too, and an STI epidemic. (Not all birth control stops disease, certainly not the pill.)

    #330415
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Ironically, dande48, I think your comment highlights exactly what I take from the quote: It is the difficult effort to analyze something from all possible angles, even if that is not possible fully, that makes a belief truly one’s own.

    Of course, our beliefs don’t develop in vacuums, so they aren’t solely of our own making, but they still can be our own if we understand how and why other people see them as positive and/or negative and if we understand the implications (as opposed to only the most obvious elements). Without that effort, they truly aren’t our own.

    We talk a lot here about how faith transitions can be extremely difficult, but we also talk a lot about how discovering our own beliefs (rather than our former communal beliefs) is empowering and liberating – even when we choose to stay involved in the same community whose generalized beliefs we no longer accept fully for ourselves. It often is the painful journey that produced that growth and eventual (relative) peace – because we found ourselves in situations that required we look at our beliefs squarely and as comprehensively as possible and alter some/many of them to become our own.

    #330416
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Further thoughts:

    Quote:

    If I don’t understand the positive and negative implications of my beliefs, I don’t understand my beliefs – and, in reality, they are not fully mine.

    I don’t actually agree with this statement at all. Understanding is nothing to do with believing. Most people believe in gravity, but they don’t have a clue about how it occurs.

    Like I said, we tend to get our beliefs partly from elsewhere, but the whole implication and understanding is something else.

    For example someone accused me of being in the SS. I pointed out it was disbanded before I was born and none of my ancestors fought for Hitler. But that was his schizophrenia. Did he get that belief from elsewhere? Largely not (unless we want to throw demons into the mix). He didn’t have understanding or knowledge of the implications, but he believed it anyway. No one else came up with this notion for him.

    What this statement should say:

    Quote:

    If I don’t understand the positive and negative implications of my beliefs, I don’t understand my beliefs – and, in reality, I have not considered them properly.

    They are not fully mine, but no one has completely independent beliefs.

    #330417
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I like those alterations, Sam.

    #330418
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’m not sure I’ grasping the concept of

    Old Timer wrote:


    my beliefs – and, in reality, they are not fully mine.

    Does that mean my beliefs didn’t originate from myself in a vacuum?

    Because I think my beliefs are totally mine. Where they came from, if others agree or not, is another topic. They are still mine. And I can change them as I learn more from others.

    I agree with what was said above…I don’t fully understand them (gravity is a good example)…but I can believe in them even if I don’t understand them.

    I’m trying to think of an example of something where I have a belief that isn’t mine? I’m missing it.

    All my beliefs are a construct of my own thinking. However I came to that…when I acknowledge I have a belief…it is mine at that point.

    #330419
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Heber,

    I think there are multiple pieces to this. first and foremost is to consider the full quote.

    Old Timer wrote:


    If I don’t understand the positive and negative implications of my beliefs, I don’t understand my beliefs – and, in reality, they are not fully mine.


    Curt’s paraphrase is helpful

    Old Timer wrote:


    It is the difficult effort to analyze something from all possible angles, even if that is not possible fully, that makes a belief truly one’s own.

    I saw a Christian book recently that said something like “Christianity in the modern world: find out what you believe about a host of current events.”

    I chuckled at this because it assumes that because I am a Christian, I should believe a certain way about a specific subject. “How helpful that they wrote this book to explain exactly how I believe lest I have an independent and divergent thought!” 😮 ;) I believe the quote from the OP suggests that if you are just adopting group beliefs wholesale as your own then they are not really yours?

    Heber13 wrote:


    All my beliefs are a construct of my own thinking. However I came to that…when I acknowledge I have a belief…it is mine at that point.

    This is a good thought that I would like to explore. What does it take to have ownership of something? Do we ever own anything in the ultimate sense? It would seem that in most situations there are degrees of ownership and value can be found both in claiming something and in learning to let go.

    #330420
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Roy wrote:


    This is a good thought that I would like to explore. What does it take to have ownership of something? Do we ever own anything in the ultimate sense? It would seem that in most situations there are degrees of ownership and value can be found both in claiming something and in learning to let go.

    I think that my faith transition has been helpful for me because I no longer assume that I know what God wants, or what the moral code of God is.

    For the first time in my life, I believe I am 100% responsible for figuring out what my ethical and moral code is. In other words, I am taking ownership of my moral and ethical choices – 1 choice at a time.

    It can be very daunting at times, in part because my husband doesn’t see why don’t I just adopt the church’s ethical code (as understood by mainstream Mormonism) and move on with our lives. I accept that this is his viewpoint as perceived by me. Sometimes I feel it is isolating, and causes him to judge my actions without being able to grasp the context of my actions.

    EXAMPLE: We have a person getting baptized this week that I don’t associate with very easily. He is not easy to talk to, wheel-chair bound, much older than I am, and requiring more emotional/social resources then I want to invest. The baptism was announced for Saturday, and I told my husband – “You can go – I will stay at home with the girls.” He looked at me weirdly, and asked me why I said this. I gave him 3 reasons a) I don’t know him very well and don’t wish to know him better, b) it is not worth it to me to wrangle the girls during the meeting for a person who probably wouldn’t even notice we were there, c) I can do chores or homework or spend time with my daughters in those 2 hours.

    He then got all weird about it associating it with my faith transition and treated it like it was super important for us to be there – but I know that we have missed child baptisms of children my daughter’s age for some of the same exact reasons I gave (and no one said they cared).

    Hindsight being 20/20, maybe he was trying to protect himself from social anxiety by using me as a shield, and didn’t want to feel guilty not going without me.

    I have borrowed the weighty tome, “What We Owe To Each Other” in part to answer some of those questions. However, I am not able to get past the introduction:(

    #330421
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks Roy.

    Roy wrote:


    I believe the quote from the OP suggests that if you are just adopting group beliefs wholesale as your own then they are not really yours?

    Interesting thought.

    Roy wrote:


    there are degrees of ownership and value can be found both in claiming something and in learning to let go.

    I do think letting go is a good thing to learn as well. Especially letting go of some beliefs and being open to new ones.

    AmyJ wrote:


    For the first time in my life, I believe I am 100% responsible for figuring out what my ethical and moral code is. In other words, I am taking ownership of my moral and ethical choices – 1 choice at a time.

    Sounds like AmyJ is owning her beliefs.

    #330422
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Old Timer wrote:


    This came from a conversation with a friend earlier today. I think it applies perfectly to this site, as well.

    Quote:

    If I don’t understand the positive and negative implications of my beliefs, I don’t understand my beliefs – and, in reality, they are not fully mine.

    Thoughts?

    I don’t consider it accurate. You make decisions all the time without really knowing the implications of them. Does understanding implications equate to ownership? I would say “no”. This statement implies you have to be a visionary with perfect judgment to truly own your beliefs.

    The test as to whether the beliefs are really your own are if you believe they are your own. Now, at times, you might decide you no longer own the beliefs — that you thought they were your own, but life experiences have caused you to believe otherwise. But that doesn’t make those beliefs someone else’s for the time you embraced them as truth.

    #330423
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Quote:

    I don’t consider it accurate. Heck, you make decisions all the time without really knowing the implications of them. Does understanding implications equate to ownership? I would say “no”. This statement implies you have to be a visionary with perfect judgment to truly own your beliefs.

    The test as to whether the beliefs are really your own are if you believe they are your own. Now, at times, you might decide you no longer own the beliefs — that you thought they were your own, but life experiences have caused you to believe otherwise. But that doesn’t make those beliefs someone else’s for the time you embraced them as truth.

    I am with SD on this one. So much of whatever we believe comes from outside sources. School teachers, books we read, neighborhood conversations, even church. We take them, process them, make decisions on them and then change as experiences change. Everyone does it the same way.

    #330424
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I like it for its emphasis on looking at beliefs from multiple perspectives, positive and negative, in order to make beliefs truly our own – not just processing them and never changing them. Not everyone looks closely or broadly enough at religious beliefs to change them with experience.

    I know we are dealing with definition semantics at this point, but those semantics are important to me. I am fine with others not finding them important. :D

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