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So church yesterday was a mixed bag. Sac Mtg had three talks all on the Proclamation. The worst of these was the High Council speaker who erroneously claimed that the Word of Wisdom was advice that nobody else at the time was doing (hello, Seventh Day Adventists and Kellogg!) and that it took medical science 100 years to catch up with (!), and that the Proclamation was completely out of the blue (hello, gay marriage in Hawaii) and nobody had even considered how the family was going to be redesigned at the time (obviously this guy didn’t get out much in the 1970s-1990s). HC speaker 100% called the Proclamation “revelation” and claimed that it was “written by” the apostles, which we know it was not. It was written by lawyers so the church’s stance on families would be a matter of record, allowing the church to object to the legalization of gay marriage in Hawaii. On the upside, though, none of the talks focused on gender roles or even mentioned them–not one of them. They focused on forgiving each other in families and putting family first (with the obvious omission of families with gay people in them). If you’re going to give a talk on the Proc, at least avoid that dumpster fire.
Then RS was just really really great. We talked about ministering, and particularly about how to avoid saying the wrong thing when someone is grieving, and that you just have to listen to people and let them be the center of their own pain without trying to solve it or take over the conversation and without being uncomfortable yourself. It was a really helpful discussion. I often find that RS redeems an otherwise boring or downright bad Sunday of meetings.
Which of the 3 hours do you think is generally the best one in your wards?
hawkgrrrl, I probably would have walked out of the HC talk at the precise moment that the word “revelation” came out of his mouth, so it’s interesting to note that by not leaving the building, you have other positive and uplifting experiences. I’m currently in the mode of SM only. But, when I do attend more, I tend to enjoy SS the most. Since I was young, I’ve always found the narrative of the scriptures and our “history” to be compelling. I get why others don’t. For me, I suppose it’s akin to Easter eggs, Christmas songs, turkey at Thanksgiving, and Black Friday; points along the way to remind myself of a certain continuity. Of course, teacher-roulette is always in play. Literalism vs meaning is always a thing. But SS has the most potential. PM is occasionally great. I liked it before the combining. I used to tell people that I was glad the men weren’t organized like the women, where every woman in the ward from 18 to 88 is in the same group. Oh well.
Third hour usually is excellent. It is a good mix of seemingly orthodox and heterodox men who are open and accepting of good discussions with varying perspectives. Sunday School quality depends completely on who teaches the lesson each week.
Sacrament Meeting is a mixed bag, but our Bishop tries to focus on Christ with the topic assignments and gives a reasonably large scriptural block from which to gain inspiration. The occasional recruitment talk on Seminary bothers me, but we have members who often talk candidly about their flawed lives. Yesterday, the first adult speaker talked about how damaging it was to grow up in a house where her temple married parents fought all the time, and the final speaker mentioned she is so quiet now because advocating fiercely for her disabled son made her a bitter and angry person who needed to withdraw and heal once he passed away. It was a powerful talk on the Atonement from someone who says very, very little in church.
It’s been more miss than hit lately but on average PH has been the most consistently good. It’s enduring to the 3rd hour that’s the hardest. Some people leave after SM. I suppose one could show up after SS. Right now, I’d say Sacrament Meeting. I appreciate taking the sacrament, and the time it allows me to reflect. I appreciate how the “lay” members are the ones giving the talks, instead of having the select few dominate the discussion. People are allowed to speak from the heart, and share what’s important to them. I might not agree with everything, but there’s a simplistic beauty that often touches me. SS has been covering the Old Testament. Each Sunday, it feels like we’re either covering ancient mythology, or justifying genocide. So I usually walk around the halls with my daughter.
Priesthood is dominated by the same 2-3 guys, who seem like they’re locked in a competition to prove how spiritual they are. Which is a pity, because there’s more than a few guys I’d love to hear from.
Good question, Hawk. It does vary week to week for me. I almost always skip SS (for good reason in my own mind) so second hour is sometimes best because of the socialization and sometimes ministering I give and receive then. But it’s not usually the highlight. Sometimes SM is good, sometimes bad. These past couple of weeks have been on the very good side. I do enjoy the sacrament and I’m good with that small portion of the block. Generally speaking, priesthood is best for me but I credit much of that to having a very good EQP. We do have good discussions, and we can generally be pretty open. There is the rare Sunday (perhaps once a quarter or less) where I come home without any at least mildly uplifting experience. hawkgrrrl wrote:
Which of the 3 hours do you think is generally the best one in your wards?
whichever ones I skip.This week was Stake Conference. Our 3rd GA in 2 years. I have no idea why we are so blessed? Alas, I hurt my back and missed it. On regular weeks I like Sac. and 3rd hour. I can do SS when it’s Old and New Testament. When it’s LDS SS material, I find ways to substitute or do hall church.
For Sacrament meeting I prefer 1st, 2nd, and 5th Sundays. 3rd and 4th swap off between HC and Ward Leadership.
I like chatting with ward members best of all. If I could have us do a Savior filled Sacrament meeting and some kind of social hour – church would be the bomb.
I usually run nursery for 2nd and 3rd hour as a personal assignment when I attend church (I am a mom with a clingy toddler) – Not an official calling. I found out 2 weeks ago that our branch doesn’t actually have a called nursery leader. I have an Amazon playlist of thematically appropriate church songs like “Come, Thou Fount” that I play while keeping the 4 toddlers at peace in their playing environment. I like calling the musical shots, and my chances of saying something detrimental to someone else’s testimony are greatly diminished in nursery. I also look at it as “giving back” to the moms who pass their children’s clothing onto me, and love my family despite ourselves. Sacrament meeting is the place of well-documented primary woes and battling with said energetic toddler, and an 8 year old who “doesn’t wanna do church anymore”. When we go to church, either my husband helps, or I strategically sit with older childless families/individuals who love my daughters (as much as they will permit) and make me feel supported knowing that I can dump the baby into their lap and deal with the 8 year old in a meltdown or leave the pew to deal with the toddler, knowing the 8 year old is not left to her own devices (which to be fair, are fairly tame).
AmyJ wrote:
Sacrament meeting is the place of well-documented primary woes and battling with said energetic toddler, and an 8 year old who “doesn’t wanna do church anymore”. When we go to church, either my husband helps, or I strategically sit with older childless families/individuals who love my daughters (as much as they will permit) and make me feel supported knowing that I can dump the baby into their lap and deal with the 8 year old in a meltdown or leave the pew to deal with the toddler, knowing the 8 year old is not left to her own devices (which to be fair, are fairly tame).
My wife also works in primary. She loves it & is a natural working with children. Recently, before F&T meeting a little girl came up to her & they were talking together. The girl looked over at me & said
Quote:Is he your Daddy?
(meaning me.) Mary said
Quote:no, he’s my husband.
They continued their talk & the little girl kept looking over at me trying to figure this situation out. My wife is 2 yrs younger then I am. I finally leaned
over to my wife & said
Quote:I got to start taking better care of myself.
We laughed for the rest of the day.
I love hearing stories about members who have (or are) going through a Faith Crisis finding a place to serve in church or the community. I wish I
could of found that out sooner. Instead of just dropping out all together. I believe it makes it harder to come back & participate again.
Minyan Man wrote:I love hearing stories about members who have (or are) going through a Faith Crisis finding a place to serve in church or the community. I wish I could of found that out sooner. Instead of just dropping out all together. I believe it makes it harder to come back & participate again.
Ditto and ditto. My experience has been similar – leaving and coming back is harder than staying to begin with, and I wish I had found that out sooner as well.
It was OK. For gospel doctrine we have a convert who talks like we are in a southern church. She is a good speaker, but it’s all one way, but you can listen to her at length. Priesthood was a mixed bag — the guy ran out of material, so I asked if he’d educate us on how primaries and voting works in our non-partisan county and city elections. He explained the voting process beautifully. As a relatively new American citizen, I learned a lot that I couldn’t find explained anywhere. Also the costs of holding a vote, and other things, and how recounts work. It was good because voter turnout is only 25% in our area, and we are supposed to be good citizens and vote. But sure enough, one of the leadership heavies in the Ward hi jacked it to bring it back to family history.
Then he ran out of material again and we talked about the name of church. I mentioned my preference for Latter-Day Christians and then, sure enough, as people always do when I float an idea, reminded ‘the class’ that the name of the church is divinely revealed and we can’t mess with it. Not recognizing I was talking about the name of the members, not the name of the church. Latter-Day Saints is good too, but I like the word Christian in it.
Ho hum.
I’m so glad I stand independent of the church today. It makes me much happier than I was banging my head against the wall trying to achieve its mission.
Minyan Man wrote:
I love hearing stories about members who have (or are) going through a Faith Crisis finding a place to serve in church or the community. I wish Icould of found that out sooner. Instead of just dropping out all together. I believe it makes it harder to come back & participate again.
That’s me all over. Community service brought so many blessings to my life I never could have realized in the church. There are times I wonder how I engaged with the church all those decades. In the church, you have a limited supply of members on which to draw; in the community, you have the whole world. In the church, you serve where put until told you can stop, in the community, it’s voluntary. In the church, you can never give enough, in the community you give what you can give. In the church, there is very little choice in where, and sometimes, how you serve. In the community, there is all the choice in the world. In the church, it’s hard to leave given family relationships, experiences which may be indicative of truth or testimony; in the community if leaders misbehave, you just move on to another organization, or even start your own.
Sorry, I guess that’s not really StayLDS, but I will say that community service kept me growing in ways the church couldn’t help me grow. But it allowed me to go to church on my own terms and still feel good about myself as a servant of humankind; just in a different way.
Good news is that I never left. I guess that’s StayLDS
Our speaker from the stake cancelled at the last minute, so we had a “musical testimony meeting” where members got up and shared a hymn they love, the verse they wanted to sing, and the page number. It was… nice.NOTE: This word is insufficient for the occasion, but will do its best. It wasn’t a terribly profound meeting, but I am glad I was there. There was nothing clearly identifiable as revelation, but that space/time was restful in a community uniting way. We had a unexpected death of a sister in our ward, so we are in mourning.
Several sweet sisters helped me ride herd on my 2 girls – the toddler wanted to climb on/chew on/lunge over everything as usual, and my 8 year old is still convinced she is a lap girl – of course this happens when a) she is bored, b) her sister is occupying my lap, and c) she is working on dis-regulating herself. I had texted my former ministering angel to ask for help with the girls before church (I like to be prepared when going it alone), and she said she would. When she got to church, she sat elsewhere and my heart sank. And then she got up and came and sat with us, explaining that she hadn’t seen us before she sat down originally.
I subbed in nursery as usual. I saw one of the fathers of an absent nursery-ite in the hallway and wondered if I had done something to make it so they no longer took their daughter to nursery. He popped in once I got the kids settled and explained that his daughter was battling a cold that he didn’t want to spread to the other nursery-ites. That was a nice gesture on his part.
My husband dealt with migraines and the cold of doom this week so was home sick and drained of most resources. Everyone in the household is still alive, and mostly un-singed.
Quote:so we had a “musical testimony meeting” where members got up and shared a hymn they love, the verse they wanted to sing, and the page number. It was… nice.
I wish these happened more regularly in our faith.
I have even had devoted LDS converts express the grief of losing their “Hymns and Devotions” hours.
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