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August 30, 2018 at 4:23 pm #212243
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GuestI found this article interesting and much to think about. With my son on a mission, safety has always been a worry for me as a parent. Hearing these stories make me wonder if we build up a false sense of security, especially the sister missionaries. I admire these women to come forward with their experiences. I can see church people totally not equipped to know how to handle things, but trying to do what they feel is right, and sometimes too late but at least still reaching out to try to do the right thing.
Lots of thoughts around this.
Read the article and share your thoughts and take-aways:
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/08/30/lds-church-says-it-wasnt/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/08/30/lds-church-says-it-wasnt/ What more can be done to protect women in the church, and not sweep these sexual assaults under the rug?
Are the victims being supported, or left to deal with questions on their own faith journey?
Do we create a false sense of security in the mission field?
Does the church look sincere in trying to do better and admit the inadequacies and the past mistakes?
August 30, 2018 at 5:21 pm #331099Anonymous
GuestI could say a lot about the article. I’ll bore everyone piecemeal over multiple posts. Heber13 wrote:Do we create a false sense of security in the mission field?
I picture says a thousand words. Here’s two thousand words that illustrate (pun) a mindset:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/2cQjEXi.gif [/img] 
[img]https://i.imgur.com/PrwVwUE.jpg [/img] I think it’s an extension of the prosperity gospel. If we’re being righteous (and what could be more righteous than serving a mission?) god will protect us. One thought that occurs to me, without that false sense of security it would probably be that much harder for LDS moms (and dads) to send their children to some places.
August 30, 2018 at 5:26 pm #331100Anonymous
GuestEven with the Elder Missionaries, I think this is a pretty big problem. I’ve had a couple of friends who were sexually assaulted while serving. Even on my own mission, I’ve had what equates to sexual abuse be dismissed as “locker room” behavior. Especially with guys, anything short of rape gets dismissed as “guys being guys”, “don’t be a pansy”, and doesn’t get reported. To make things worse, the is constantly taking steps to distance itself from any scandal. I guess that’s to be expected. But I have a problem when the Church’s response is “Not our problem”, rather than addressing the situation and taking steps to rectify it. Because if they do take steps to correct it, that’s admitting:
1. It is our problem.
2. We didn’t have the revelatory foresight to prevent this.
… which I feel is the root of almost all the difficulties I have with the Church. I’m both glad and sad it’s come to the point, where the Church can no longer ignore it.
August 30, 2018 at 5:46 pm #331101Anonymous
GuestI’ll relate this point back to the article, promise: This is one of my soap box issues but I think a negative fruit of having a lay clergy is that it creates a competition of sorts. Some callings are more prestigious (for lack of a better word than others) and I think there’s this culture where if person A is more obedient than person B, person A will land the prestigious calling. It leads to outward manifestations of righteousness, which as humans we’re prone to anyway.
Quote:At 22, Junca had graduated from Brigham Young University. She had a good job as a recruiter for a Provo company. But she felt lacking in one major area: as a member of the church.
It hadn’t been a core part of her life as she was growing up near Detroit. In her student ward, or congregation, in Provo, while others were asked to fill leadership or spiritual roles, her most recent calling was to the waffle committee.
She decided to volunteer as a missionary and was excited to be called to serve out of the country, in an expansive, two-state region of Mexico known as the Cuernavaca Mission.
I do not, repeat, I do not want to put words in this person’s mouth. This is me reading between the lines and injecting a specific mindset into the situation, one that she probably did not share. This is for the sake of argument alone. If we’re called to the waffle committee do we feel lacking at church when we see others filling leadership roles? Do we feel like we have to serve missions to be accepted by the community? That answer may be different for YM and YW in the church.
There’s pressure to do and that pressure can put us in harm’s way in some circumstances. I’ve got to litter this with disclaimers, I’m not saying this person would have been safe/better off if they didn’t serve a mission. From the article:
Quote:In December 2015, a general authority visited their mission and spoke about the importance of the “golden hour” — between 8 and 9 at night, when fathers are home. At the time, missionaries in Bolivia were instructed to return to their homes at 8 to eat dinner, study and be in bed by 10:30 p.m. But the authority promised them if they worked until 9 p.m., they would be blessed and find more families.
This is a lead up to a personal story. Jeez I hate starting sentences off this way but… on my mission the country would regularly have huelgas, like a nationwide strike over political issues. Things always got dicey for several days during those strikes. We were instructed to stay inside our apartments those days. There were
alwaysmissionaries that would go out on those days. They were proving their faithfulness and righteousness… and maybe gunning for a promotion in the mission leadership hierarchy. IDK. The point is that risk taking can become another badge of loyalty. And I’ll come right out and say it. In the “golden hour” story I don’t think safety even crossed the GAs mind. That’s not necessarily negative criticism, what I’m saying is that he probably didn’t think, “This could be dangerous but I’m willing to risk it.” He probably stopped thinking after, “Most people are home at that hour.” But at the end of the day a church leader put the needs of the church, finding people to teach, ahead of the safety of the members. I’m not sure where I’m going with this point, but it crossed my mind.
And I’m also not saying that they would have been safe if they were home by a certain hour. Nothing guarantees safety in this life. Nothing. Which is kind of the point.
August 30, 2018 at 5:51 pm #331102Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:
To make things worse, the is constantly taking steps to distance itself from any scandal. I guess that’s to be expected. But I have a problem when the Church’s response is “Not our problem”, rather than addressing the situation and taking steps to rectify it. Because if they do take steps to correct it, that’s admitting:
Another con of a lay ministry IMO. The church’s response might come across as “not our problem” because they’re like a deer in headlights. Leaders don’t know what to do and don’t know what to say because they’re untrained people. Like in the story, we instinctively call a zone leader instead of the police. What is a zone leader, likely a 19 year old child, going to do?
We’d do better to have trained professionals that know how to help people. And by trained professionals I don’t mean someone in a calling that watched a video. I mean a trained professional.
August 30, 2018 at 7:24 pm #331103Anonymous
GuestI have a lot of opinions on this. First of all, let me just say that when I was a missionary, I was as guilty as anyone for being cavalier about my safety or thinking I would be protected. I think part of that is just being young, feeling invincible. Young people often feel they are safer than they are because they don’t have life experience yet. I was also in a relatively safe place, the Canary Islands, which is basically the Hawaii of Europe. The only things that happened to me were: 1) two companions who were robbed, neither involving weapons, although both were physically assaulted by their attackers.
2) many instances of frottage on public transportation
3) being flashed by a guy who asked me “What do you think of that?” (indicating his penis). My response was “It looks like a penis, only smaller.”
There was one area I worked, with pretty strong success, that was full of heroin addicts. That was the place my comp got robbed (the first time), but I never felt unsafe there. My parents came at the end of my mission, and when we walked through that area to see some of my families, I absolutely for the first time saw that place as a civilian and did not feel that it was a safe area for them, as we gingerly stepped over discarded needles.
The elders in my mission were definitely in worse places than we were, consistently. The article seems to overlook the danger to the men, instead focusing solely on the risks of sexual assault that are more of an issue for sisters on the whole.
I’m encouraged about Gary Crittenden’s role. I didn’t know he was in the missionary dept. He was one of our execs at Amex, and very well regarded. In general, I’d trust former leaders I had there to understand how to make good people decisions and understand risks well. I suspect he will make wise decisions.
I’m not at all encouraged by the nonsensical and harmful statement Nelson is quoted as making in the article. Perhaps it’s cherry picked, but maybe not. His comment is only too prevalent among church leaders and members, that if missionaries are obedient they will be protected. That’s how we end up with victim blaming. It’s not about obedience, like–at all. God doesn’t say “You didn’t read your scriptures today so you will be sexually assaulted.” And yet, that’s the attitude too many have. We have this magical mindset that missionaries are going to be physically safe in dangerous situations if they do completely unrelated things (likewise so many teach that if you are “obedient” you’ll have baptisms when baptisms are really dependent on other people’s decisions, not your unrelated actions).
I do believe you can feel spiritual warnings to avoid situations or get out of a place, but that doesn’t mean nothing will ever happen to you or that you are at fault if something does. It doesn’t mean you are disobedient or a bad missionary, or that those who aren’t assaulted are somehow better. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
The church needs to:
1) quit telling missionaries not to talk to family members about safety concerns (although, let’s be honest, some parents can’t handle the truth or are culturally unaware or would like to encase their children in bubble wrap)
2) require more oversight of dangerous areas–maybe force MPs to justify their decisions of where to put missionaries.
3) revert to age 19 for elders (I totally believe 18 is just too young)
4) involve EXPERTS more in creating procedures and provide EXPERT counseling
5) let missionaries make the decisions about whether they will go home
6) provide far better information about risks–to the missionaries–in areas missionaries are assigned to
7) involve women with expertise in assault in the creation of procedures and training materials as well as mission governance.
missions should have an assigned counselor who is local to assist with missionary mental health issues including trauma, but also anxiety.9) we should lift the restrictions on calling home. Allow contact with home.
August 30, 2018 at 8:03 pm #331104Anonymous
Guestspring-boarding off of nibbler’s lay ministry comments… Long ago, when I was a DL in medium-sized South American town, there was one specific area of town that belonged to the Sister Missionaries. However, there was no electricity in there. That meant that when it got dark (about 6PM), it was pitch black in that area. It was a little bit rougher than the surrounding areas, although I wouldn’t categorize it as ‘bad’. Many of you have had these experiences, but it’s hard to imagine if you’ve never been there. For those who haven’t, imagine going to a little-bit-rough part of the town you live in. Now imagine doing it at night. Now imagine that all the lights are off, inside and out, for as far as you can see. It’s dark enough for the starlight to cast shadows. All you can really see is shapes of buildings. You are on the street with one other person, wandering around on foot, looking for an address. There are no cars. There aren’t people out in the streets (that you can see)… it’s just the two of you. You keep walking. It can be unnerving.
And the Sister Missionaries were assigned this area. So, my comp and I just handled this area instead of the sisters doing it. I don’t remember whose idea it was or if it was already in-place by the time I got there. I’m not saying it was completely safe for me, either, but the reality is that Elders present a different type of target than do Sisters, and I was fine with making that trade-off. My point is the following:
– Even back in those days, we were aware that we had to use some common sense
– This was not dictated by the mission office; we just worked it out between the four of us
– Because of the above, this kind of approach was not universal. I’m certain that there were other areas in South America at the time that were far more dangerous that missionaries (men and women) went into without even thinking about it, and that’s kind of the problem in this whole thing: there has to be more training and more thought put into consistent safety practices.
In a certain way, I lament that the Church has to worry about this stuff, and I don’t hold the Church responsible for the evil that does exist in the world. But the Church operates with way too much naivete about this kind of thing. I’m glad to hear that the Church is learning and trying to make it better, though I worry about the pace of change. I do think that it’s past time to really evaluate all aspects of the mission lifestyle and look for ways to modernize it.
My heart goes out to the women discussed in the article.
August 30, 2018 at 8:04 pm #331105Anonymous
Guestnibbler wrote:
Things always got dicey for several days during those strikes. We were instructed to stay inside our apartments those days. There werealwaysmissionaries that would go out on those days. They were proving their faithfulness and righteousness… and maybe gunning for a promotion in the mission leadership hierarchy. IDK. The point is that risk taking can become another badge of loyalty.
I think this largely ties with three things.
First, in Christianity and especially the Church, martyrdom is just so gosh darn popular! If you die for the Church, or on your mission, you automatically make it to the celestial kingdom. You’re a hero, glory and praises. Your family will weep over you, “Such a faithful missionary”, and yet be comforted knowing you’ve made it to godhood.
Second, like you mentioned, missionaries are often told that angels are walking over them and God will protect them. Of course, this all ties in with faith. The more faith you have, the better the miracles. Hence, those missionaries going out preaching in dangerous areas will be protected from knives and bullets, and come home with quite a few stories to tell. Because lets face it, one of the greatest benefits from serving a mission, is having those blow-you-away stories to share, over the pulpit, in Sunday School, on dates, and with your children.
Third, we stick the absolute burden of the salvation of souls in an area, on the missionaries. If missionaries don’t do their absolute, 110% very best, the blood and sins of the people be upon their garments. It really makes some go above and beyond. Not to mention, if you’re not constantly teaching and baptizing, you feel like crap.
I’m reminded of mission prep class at BYU. The teacher posed some interesting questions to the class.
Teacher wrote:“Would you be willing to go on a mission, if you knew you were going to be killed or murdered?”
Two girls sitting in front of me wrote:“Yeah!” “Totally”
Teacher wrote:“Would you go if you knew you were going to be raped?”
Girls in front of me wrote:“Um. No.”
And from my experience, some Sisters really are eager to jump into murdery neighborhoods, trusting God will protect them from rape.
August 30, 2018 at 10:17 pm #331106Anonymous
Guesthawkgrrrl wrote:
The church needs to:1) quit telling missionaries not to talk to family members about safety concerns (although, let’s be honest, some parents can’t handle the truth or are culturally unaware or would like to encase their children in bubble wrap)
2) require more oversight of dangerous areas–maybe force MPs to justify their decisions of where to put missionaries.
3) revert to age 19 for elders (I totally believe 18 is just too young)
4) involve EXPERTS more in creating procedures and provide EXPERT counseling
5) let missionaries make the decisions about whether they will go home
6) provide far better information about risks–to the missionaries–in areas missionaries are assigned to
7) involve women with expertise in assault in the creation of procedures and training materials as well as mission governance.
missions should have an assigned counselor who is local to assist with missionary mental health issues including trauma, but also anxiety.9) we should lift the restrictions on calling home. Allow contact with home.
As the parent of two returned missionaries and one out now, I totally agree with this list.
I would add require MPs to immediately inform parents when their son/daughter has been injured or assaulted.
August 30, 2018 at 10:22 pm #331107Anonymous
GuestI have heard that the statistical likelihood of bad things happening to missionaries was less than the statistical likelihood of bad thing happening to other young people of a similar age group. In considering this, I feel that the church cannot have missionaries and prevent all such from happening. However, there may be some additional precautions that can and should be taken.
Perhaps the bigger failing was how this was handled after the fact. As a church (as the organization, the individual members, and the culture) we have much baggage with sexual assualt.
August 30, 2018 at 10:32 pm #331108Anonymous
GuestI was in a first-world country which would hardly be considered a dangerous place, but still had my fair share of scary incidents and close calls. Several times I was sure I was about to be murdered. For one thing, I think the way missionaries stand out creates problems for safety. A young foreigner wearing fancy clothes and not understanding the local language makes an obvious target. Maybe making the missionary uniform less conspicuous could help. Also, a lot of missionaries haven’t lived on their own before and simply lack street smarts.
I think the culture tends to glorify the mission system. There’s a common idea that if something happens to you, it was probably because you were disobedient, since the rules are the Lord’s way of protecting his missionaries. We always had to watch a road safety video of Elder Holland which at one point noted that most accidents resulted from disobedience to mission rules. Similarly, concerns about proselyting after dark were often dismissed since the mission schedule was divinely instituted.
I do think the church is trying to improve the mission experience, even if they don’t admit the old ways were wrong. I remember hearing people say the missionary schedule was divinely inspired, that it was the absolute healthiest way for missionaries to live. But recently they changed it to allow missionaries to get more sleep, probably after discussions with mission doctors and psychologists.
August 30, 2018 at 11:25 pm #331109Anonymous
GuestQuote:Perhaps the bigger failing was how this was handled after the fact. As a church (as the organization, the individual members, and the culture) we have much baggage with sexual assualt.
Agreed about the baggage associated with sexual assault.
Here are a few failings I saw in the story she shared:
1) MP didn’t take the US govt warnings of the area seriously enough, esp since the local police were complicit in the crimes (working with the drug cartels). AA shares in this complicity.
2) MP pressured missionaries to work longer hours to have more success, even when locals considered this unsafe.
After the fact:
1) the MP just sent her home without consulting her wishes
2) MP didn’t offer counseling.
3) MP didn’t direct them to fill out a police report.
4) MP sent TWO MORE SISTERS into this exact same area after the last pair were sexually assaulted. WTF???
5) MP didn’t think to encourage talking to parents or support network at home or lift the moratorium on phone calls as a means to help them feel mentally supported.
Generally:
1) MP wife has no official role, so any caring she does in these cases is extra and certainly depends on her abilities.
Basically, the MP dealt with physical needs–only. He did call her at home a few days later, so it’s not that he wasn’t concerned. People without expertise (both men & women) and who haven’t been through trauma are probably eager to believe all is well.
August 30, 2018 at 11:31 pm #331110Anonymous
GuestRoy – I agree that missionaries are less likely to have bad things like death than their counterparts. But remember what their counterparts at their age are doing. Quite often they are drinking, driving, and God forbid – they even go swimming. So I don’t see so much of God’s protection and the rules protecting (at least the elders) from doing stupid stuff kids (mainly boys) do at that age before their pre-frontal cortext finishes developing (which like age 25 or 26 when that is complete). Well kudos to Hawkgrrrl for making me go learn what “frottage” means and giving me a laugh on her response to being flashed. I hope she didn’t use that line on her wedding night.
Amen to Hawk’s list, but on this one is important
- 4) involve EXPERTS more in creating procedures and provide EXPERT counseling
I know that they often have a counselor that can be called upon (your mileage will vary), but I have been told that if you have more than 3 sessions your ticket is punched to go back home. This discourages going to the counselor.
I feel for those that have endured things like this. I may not have it as bad, but this is a bit raw for me as I had a son out just a few years ago and all we were getting were emails of, “Things are GREAT! Tons of MIRACLES!!” every week in the email to the family.
Then 5 minutes after the family email one week I get an email from my son addressed only to me. It said:
Quote:Dad, I can’t take this any more. I feel I am going to die! My new comp pokes me in the back with sharp knives and every night before I go to sleep he says ‘I am going to slit your throat while you are asleep!’
I called the mission office and told them that if my son had even 1 more night with that companion, I will be on an airplane down to South America to pick up my son and he had better have his visa ready for me. He did pull him that evening.It is hard to know I have one more son that is probably 99.9999% planning on going on a mission. I can’t decide if telling his bishop at the school ward he is at, “My testimony as his dad is teetering and it will not survive having another son sent to a slum where he has a companion that threatens to kill him and a hard-nosed MP that takes away a good chunk of his p-days”. He never once had a chance to even visit any cultural events or locations. I am not sure if that will make a difference in the end and if it would tick off my son if he ever found out.
August 31, 2018 at 2:04 pm #331111Anonymous
GuestThe parts that ring home to my own experiences in the church, while much tamer, obviously, are 1) How one sister was referred to a the legal department when she called about her issues — that the church looked at it as a legal risk and referred her to a paralegal. How quick we are to throw out any sense of support to our members if we feel, even mistakenly, they are a legal risk! That happened to me once, and you start questioning whether you’re a member of an organization with a divine commission, or an employee of a Fortune 500 company.
2) How the Early Release department was “understaffed” and therefore, didn’t give one of the sisters the support she needed. This reminds me of times when I’ve wanted/needed counseling regarding issues related to church service, and LDS Social Services is so busy they can’t see you for months or even at all.
3) How the religious basis of the counseling from LDS Social Services can be lame as all get out. Also how they limited the counseling to “six sessions”. You should get enough until you don’t need it anymore if we are truly interested in helping the person become whole again.
4) How the church seemed to think it was its sole decision about whether a missionary should be sent home after trauma. Leave that to the missionary, and support them however they decide. Also, give them the option of being reassigned to a Spanish speaking mission somewhere safer where they can still use their newly found language skills, and have a positive experience. Give people a choice how they will respond.
5) I was amazed at the cold-hearted mission president who, when the sister missionary who was attacked and almost raped at knifepoint wanted to go home. How he said “I wish you wouldn’t”, perhaps because an actual rape didn’t occur. As far as I’m concerned, being stripped naked and held at knifepoint and narrowly escaping rape was close enough.
All this makes me very happy my daughter chose to get married at 18 rather than serve a mission. I advised her against the mission actually — at least, I didn’t go all out supporting the idea. I know the hell I went through to get on one in the first place (financial issues) and that with her personality, it’s not a great fit — she’s not a salesperson. So glad she got married rather than being plunged into some drug-ridden area where rape and physical injury are a risk. Or somewhere where people will kidnap them for ransom, as happened in Russia a while ago.
August 31, 2018 at 5:08 pm #331112Anonymous
GuestSilentDawning wrote:
4) How the church seemed to think it was its sole decision about whether a missionary should be sent home after trauma.
SilentDawning wrote:
5) I was amazed at the cold-hearted mission president who, when the sister missionary who was attacked and almost raped at knifepoint wanted to go home. How he said “I wish you wouldn’t”
The story hits all the highlights doesn’t it?
We aren’t good at listening to people and ministering to their needs at church but we’ve got a lot of practice telling people they need to get with the program.
I remember a few cases from my mission (and I’ve heard other anecdotes) where someone wanted to go home and they endured days of fighting to have their wishes met. I don’t get it. These are
volunteers, volunteers that are paying their way to be there, yet we sometimes treat them like deserters in an army during wartime. The one story had the opposite extreme. Someone being told they’re going home. Sure, we don’t have the full story but it sounds like once things get inconvenient you’re done. And I do want to balance that out a little, sometimes we may not be in a state to make a decision that’s best for us. It’s a tricky line.
But it’s another one of those things that I feel contribute to unsafe practices during missions. If you know there’s a policy that will get you sent home early if you get sick or if you have to have more than three sessions with a therapist you may be reluctant to seek the help you need.
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