Those that leave the church.

I’ve known many people who have left the church. There are a variety of reasons and as Pres. Uchtdorf asserted, it is not that simple. I also reject Satan as the cause. Satan gets lots of credit for stuff the natural man does all by himself with no need of supernatural help of any kind. It is not our place to judge those who leave the church it is our job to love our neighbor.

Different views are fine here, including orthodox ones, but we try hard here not to insult or condemn people for choosing to live differently than we do. The Golden Rule and all that Jazz applies to those who leave, and it applies to those who stay.

Following that guideline isn’t easy, and we fail at it here sometimes, but we try. That is important to us.

Different views are fine here, including orthodox ones, but we try hard here not to insult or condemn people for choosing to live differently than we do. The Golden Rule and all that Jazz applies to those who leave, and it applies to those who stay.

Following that guideline isn’t easy, and we fail at it here sometimes, but we try. That is important to us.

I guess I’m missing the connection between the Lambo and leaving the church. Did they spend money they would have otherwise spent on tithing? If so wow!! A new Aventador is about $400k, if that’s the case I seriously doubt that the Lamborghini had anything to do with leaving the church because that would place their income north of $4 mil. If that’s the case I seriously doubt satan made them buy it.

Last do you seriously think that they have rejected God, or eternity? That is the exact belief that needs to be purged from the church. We are saved by Grace not rejection of expensive cars. How do you know they have rejected Christ? How do you know what their path is? Why would you EVER think that because someone who leaves the church is lost? How do you know if they aren’t donating that money to stop sex trafficking, or stop world hunger? Holy cow this makes me fired up!!

If you only believe that active church members will be saved how many people will actually be in Heaven? Less than 0.01% of the worlds historical population have ever heard of the LDS church, and do you honestly believe that even if they accepted the gospel in the afterlife they won’t be responsible for the way they lived their lives?

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It’s not clear to me if this is meant to be a response to Curt because you quote him but knowing Curt the response is way out of line with what he believes. If it’s meant as a response to another post you should quote that post.

That said, it appears a moderator note may be in order so here it is: Curt is absolutely right. The moderator team works very hard to keep our forum one of civil respect. Differing opinions are a welcome and necessary part of what happens here, even if those differing opinions are very orthodox and/or differ greatly from our own. What is not welcome is direct attacks on individuals and their personal beliefs or perspectives. We can disagree here without being disagreeable. Please be respectful of others.

I also reject the idea that “Satan got them”.

In my own journey, the textbook church path was a path to misery for me in so many ways. At one point, the misery factor outstripped the happiness factor, and so, I made adjustments. Now I am happier than I ever was when it comes to my life in general. And that is the object and design of our existence isn’t it — happiness?

I really don’t blame these people for having issues with Joseph Smith either. There was a lot of WEIRD STUFF in the beginning that would alienate the average person time and time and time again. And it does.

I also think it’s judgmental to say that part of their apostasy was buying a Lamborgini (don’t mind my spelling). There is nothing wrong with enjoying possessions in my view. Now, if they went into major hock and risked their financial security, it might be considered an unwise financial decision, but that is none of my business.

And last of all, some of us has suffered much in the church — leadership abuse, nasty people, being left high and dry on mission critical issues within the power of the church to give support. You name it. The Church, like all organizations, has massive failures at certain times, and members are sometimes casualties in that situation. I think my own situation falls into that category. When believing members here my story, they say “I’m surprised you still attend” — and their reaction is not in response to any attitudes I show (I try not to show any attitude, just share facts), their reaction is to the facts of my story.

So, to blame the member, to blame it on Satan getting them, isn’t always part of my playbook. Putting full onus on the member every time is, for me, yet another example of the church avoiding responsibilty for its own actions and the natural consequences thereof. Not sure what pushed these people over the edge, but the church is so unsafe for people who have concerns about it, it wouldn’t surprise me if their issues go deeper than simply the weirdness of Joseph Smith.

What if they donated $5Mil to a hospital cancer center, and still had enough to buy the Lamborghini?

I think we likely don’t know the whole story of this couple to make judgments one way or the other. But my experience with knowing those “who left the church” is they often fill their lives with very good and positive things. But if we want to just focus on their church attendance…I guess we judge based on a criteria I doubt God uses to judge. Because many that stay in the church also have boats and cabins in the mountains and private jets.

In short, there is little difference between life choices of those that stay active and those that leave, as a general sweeping rule.

If they stay active in the church and buy the Lamborghini, does the car then become a blessing?

Prosperity gospel, right? I guess you could say one person’s blessing is another person’s curse.

It seems to be accepted as long as you have attendance in church and obedience to commandments…a story can be built to support either God or Satan provided the event.

You forgot the sex stuff. There’s always some sex stuff going on in these cases. :shh:

Where ever there are kids being born, you have to assume there is sex going on.