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November 2, 2018 at 4:13 am #212317
Anonymous
GuestIt’s a long read. I will come back tomorrow and post quotes. Many of us here can appreciate the struggle. (Admin note) This will not become a political debate. I will close it if it does.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/us/young-evangelicals-politics-midterms.html?rref=homepage&module=Ribbon&version=context®ion=Header&action=click&contentC ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/us/young-evangelicals-politics-midterms.html?rref=homepage&module=Ribbon&version=context®ion=Header&action=click&contentC November 2, 2018 at 12:48 pm #332433Anonymous
GuestI’m not sure how to comment on the article without getting political. I really struggle in this camp and I’ll try to tread lightly. I’ll quote Jesus and lay the burden of the words at his feet: Quote:This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
I’m not claiming to be a saint but I’m glad to see evangelical millennials at odds with their faith. I’ve lost a lot of faith in people, so much so that I wonder what it means to be “Christian” in 2018 and I wonder whether I can continue to identify as such. If this is what it means to be Christian then I am not Christian.
I will say that I see both sides are extremely capable of seeing the divisiveness that the other side perpetuates but often lack the ability to see the divisiveness of their side.
It’s a mess. Both sides are convinced that they have moral superiority.
November 2, 2018 at 1:34 pm #332434Anonymous
GuestPerhaps it goes beyond politics and beyond organized religion, and is a debate on culture and how to address certain problems while maintaining a level of humanity some people want. That is often how I feel at church. While some dig their heels in to protect what they hold dear to them, they often sound so hateful which I hate to hear.
I liked this quote in the article:
Quote:I’m worried that we’ve done immense harm to the marginalized in the name of God. You realize it is not good news at all if you are just baptizing certain inequalities or biases.
I am sensitive to this perception of marginalizing in the name of love, it feels wrong, but I try to see the other side of things too…how do you stand for truth or stand for anything if you don’t define something as wrong in order to define something as right?
I see the paradox and don’t know the answers. So I err on the side of kindness and acceptance of everyone as they are.
I’m not sure it makes me a very good Mormon, though.
I find this fascinating it goes beyond Mormonism, beyond religion, and politics.
November 2, 2018 at 1:41 pm #332435Anonymous
GuestI can relate to this article. My husband and I had a series of disagreements about a month ago regarding theological/political issues.
Thankfully, I was reading “She Preached The Word” which introduced the concept that there were theological stances displayed that were a shorthand code for some of the embedded political ideas that congregation held. Utilizing this concept allowed me to explore some of my shifting political views and how I got to the original political views I had based on church teachings.
The really useful thing? In talking to my husband, I was able to share this concept and respectfully explore whether our disagreements were being doctrinally driven (Ahhh! Amy isn’t listening to me so her salvation is at stake and I am failing my priesthood family leadership responsibility) or politically driven (more neutral). While it sounds like it wouldn’t matter, we are able to have more effective conversations when we identify it as politically driven rather then doctrinally driven.
November 2, 2018 at 2:03 pm #332436Anonymous
GuestI’m not a fan of categorizing people based on their generational nickname. “Millenials”, “Baby-boomers”, “Gen-X”, “Gen-Y”, all kind of feel like arbitrary breakpoints, use to generalize other groups. That being said… I mentioned something similar to this in another thread not too long ago. People will always use religion to push their political agenda. In fairness, most honestly believe their political views are in line with God’s will. But I hold that religion is more a reflection of us, rather than a reflection of God. So I believe it is correct to say that those with a “left” political leaning (irrespective of generation) hold to a different “Faith” than those who with a “right” political leaning. Both groups use religion to cement their political leanings. Both views are equally valid.
… And invalid.
November 2, 2018 at 3:41 pm #332437Anonymous
GuestDande, do you think it is changing though? Are people nowadays less brand loyal to a church or to a political party, and more open to choose whatever they feel is best?
November 2, 2018 at 4:06 pm #332438Anonymous
GuestFor me this article struck way too close to home – or perhaps the strike is what I want. The interviewee’s are the same ages as my kids. This means these are peers of theirs.
My kids were members of a Christian Youth Theater troupe. For 10 years these same kids performed, circled up for prayer, and encouraged each other. Parents felt safe. Sunday worship always happened before church. Pastor’s, that were parents, led the services. It was cool. I loved it.
A shift happened though. These kids matured and the camp became divided. Theater is full of gay and bi people. Everyone from costume designers to performers knows someone who is gay/bi – etc. These are their fellow performers. Problem was they were deeply religious, too. The only thing that saves them unlike the LDS LGBTQ community, is that some Evangelical churches are more progressive, and the kids can go there.
Just a few months ago, some of my sons theater/Evangelical/LGBTQ friends were over, I was upstairs but I could hear their hurt hearts as they shared stories of hiding in the bathroom during services to avoid the toxic sermon. Of parents who ostracized their kid, pulled over to the side of the road, and told them to get out of the car, then drove off.
Their religious community is in a world of hurt. Like we are.
I find comfort in that. When I first experienced this return of faith crisis, many people tried Evangelicalism because of it’s “Grace” focus. But Humans will human. Grace is only reserved for a specific type of person.
I hope for their community that they will be heard. I hope for ours the same thing. Not just in gender/sexuality issues – but in life. We are becoming to weary to continue. When that happens we all lose.
November 2, 2018 at 4:39 pm #332439Anonymous
GuestAs usual, the “liberals” and “conservatives” miss the major point – greed – and replace it with someone’s physical appearance. You can go on about minorities all you like, but as long as you have a church whose main focus is making vast amounts of money and not redistributing it, or spending it where it is needed, as Jesus himself instructed, then your church is apostate.
Most of these “evangelical millenials” have been brainwashed into the “greed is good” mindset as well so probably can’t even see the wood for the trees.
The LDS? We’ve got a foot in both camps. We do help people in need, because I have had experience in that direction. But at the same time, there is the grabbing of wealth. I can see why we want the church to be solvent, but not all of the expenditure is what it could be.
November 2, 2018 at 4:43 pm #332440Anonymous
Guestnibbler wrote:
I’m not claiming to be a saint but I’m glad to see evangelical millennials at odds with their faith. I’ve lost a lot of faith in people, so much so that I wonder what it means to be “Christian” in 2018 and I wonder whether I can continue to identify as such. If this is what it means to be Christian then I am not Christian.
For a lot of people, it means preaching to the converted in some social media echo chamber and assuming most people agree with them as a result. People are really getting unused to hearing opposing points of view, and indeed deliberately shutting them out. Social media has a lot of issues, including surveillance, but it is also causing social delusions.
November 2, 2018 at 5:43 pm #332441Anonymous
GuestHeber13 wrote:
Are people nowadays less brand loyal to a church or to a political party, and more open to choose whatever they feel is best?
I think across generations people fundamentally stay the same. The old will always think the young are much more disrespectful and foolish than they were at that age (they weren’t). The young will always think they are wiser than the old (they’re not). If they are given more choices, they are more likely to exercise their freedom to choose. The longer they commit to something, the harder it is to diverge from it.
November 5, 2018 at 1:20 pm #332442Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:
Heber13 wrote:
Are people nowadays less brand loyal to a church or to a political party, and more open to choose whatever they feel is best?
I think across generations people fundamentally stay the same. The old will always think the young are much more disrespectful and foolish than they were at that age (they weren’t). The young will always think they are wiser than the old (they’re not). If they are given more choices, they are more likely to exercise their freedom to choose. The longer they commit to something, the harder it is to diverge from it.
There is a major difference today. The young are being brainwashed by mass media on a scale that was unseen a century ago. Their parents and grandparents watched TV and listened to the radio, but they have it 24/7 and are being manipulated by the traits of social media.
All the social problems caused by television are writ larger today. Disconnection. Balkanization. Short attention span. Inability to research matters properly. Egotism.
The fruits of this can be seen in mental health problems like anorexia, body dysmorphia, depression etc brought on by watching and looking at a distorted version of life.
November 5, 2018 at 5:29 pm #332443Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:
I think across generations people fundamentally stay the same. The old will always think the young are much more disrespectful and foolish than they were at that age (they weren’t). The young will always think they are wiser than the old (they’re not). If they are given more choices, they are more likely to exercise their freedom to choose. The longer they commit to something, the harder it is to diverge from it.
:thumbup: November 6, 2018 at 12:38 am #332444Anonymous
GuestSamBee wrote:The fruits of this can be seen in mental health problems …
I can see an argument for that.We trade one set of issues for another. Trade-offs.
November 6, 2018 at 5:26 am #332445Anonymous
GuestHeber13 wrote:
We trade one set of issues for another. Trade-offs.
I know I’d have serious mental health problems living in anytime before now. War, disease, impoverished working conditions, lack of sanitation, high mortality rates, lack of education… heck I couldn’t have been a Mormon 100 years ago, nor a Christian for 8.5/10 of the time Christianity has been around. I tell you what, warm showers and a good bed work wonders on my own mental health difficulties. For the first time, we can
affordto be mentally unwell. I wouldn’t trade this time for any other. November 6, 2018 at 7:28 pm #332446Anonymous
Guestdande48 wrote:
I wouldn’t trade this time for any other.
Agreed. I say the same things often. We call it progress. It isn’t free of suffering…but it is progress.
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