Faith promoting stories

Interesting. I have no doubt that a catholic priest, a Jewish person, or a Muslim might join the church. Their conversion stories would be quite inspiring for us because of how much they had to give up to become a member of the COJCOLDS.

I remember a young African American man in my college ward that joined the church. His family was against it. His community made fun of him. He decided to go on a mission and his dad kicked him out of the house. He was living on a friends couch until the came for him to get on the plane.

This young man’s example inspired me to serve a mission. I figured, “If he can do it, so can I!”

I did the same thing. Became Mormon when my parents were evangelical Christian. I didn’t know it at the time, and neither did they, until they got anti-Mormoned. I too was kicked out, and then had opposition from my Stake President and Bishop over lack of funds. I eventually did it without them — parents, leaders — did it on my own with God’s help and the kindness of members who helped me figure out how to raise the money on my own.

Sad part was that my SP let everyone leaving on a mission give their testimony and story, except me. So much for that faith promoting story.

Essentially I am asking a question that has deeper meaning, on one hand as ive said in another post “inspired texts are not necessarily historical” (meaning it doesn’t matter if Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale, whether Job or Nephi really existed) and on the other hand if the event never happened (her being able to read though her eyes could not see well enough) should the story be thought of as factual?

I agree that inspiring stories don’t need to be factual. But it’s unethical to pass them off as factual, when they are not.

I was happy about a young man leaving on a mission. His Dad got up at his farewell and said something miraculous about the whole thing. Then the son got up and corrected his Dad, taking what sounded like some miraculous thing and tempering it back to the commonplace. THAT was integrity. I think you want both in a story — truth and inspiration. But you can inspire others with fiction, great authors have done it for years. Just be up front that it is in fact fiction!!!

I think you want both in a story — truth and inspiration. But you can inspire others with fiction, great authors have done it for years. Just be up front that it is in fact fiction!!!

Religion seems to operate in this interesting space between fiction and non-fiction. For religion, it seems important that people actually believe what they are saying – even if it cannot be factually corroborated. Religions routinely make uncorroborated claims and encourage individuals to make financial sacrifices to the cause. Individuals or church leaders that encourage these sacrifices are not liable unless they 1) knew what they were saying was false and/or 2) directly benefited personally from the financial sacrifice.

Because of this a church leader could convince an individual to give their complete retirement savings to the church and then be completely protected from legal recourses. It is certainly a “buyer beware” arena.

There was a video from Lindybeige on Youtube, which I found to be very interesting, on Religion and War in Ancient Freece and Rome. It’s definitely worth the watch. To sum up part of it, the Greek/Roman armies would often have an oracle with them, to fortell and give counsel. We’ve got plenty of stories where the oracles promised victory, and it would come true. We also have stories where a general would go against the counsel of an oracle to their utter ruin. But we have NO stories from ancient Greece or Rome when an oracle was ever wrong in their prophecy. So were the Greek gods actually real? Did the oracles actually have the gift of prophecy? Or simply put, does faith make good followers?

Or, do we only know the stories that prove the point? That is, when the oracles predicted something that didn’t happen (e.g. the army got their butts kicked) do we just not know that story? I often think about this in testimony meetings – we rarely hear about the stories where the individual prayed really hard for something or gave a priesthood blessing and it they didn’t find their car keys or the person wasn’t healed – but we all know those things happen.

I have been disappointed SO MUCH with faith, that I limit my faith in faith (an odd phrase) to faith in a vision of what I feel I can accomplish in this life. Or faith that I personally can do something that might be challenging. Faith in miracles — faith God will send plums from heaven — I don’t rule out these things, but I don’t expect them. Faith that the afterlife is like the Mormons tell it — I take that with a grain of salt. Parts of it I surely don’t believe.

I have trouble believing in the Second Coming — the Coming that never comes. We are told in the last days that Zion will become wicked, but I was reading research on Utah as one of the places in the world that has the highest well being of its citizens, the best future outlook economically and on a number of other fronts. I know there are pockets of opposition within the church, but that has always been true — and perhaps more visible due to the Internet facilitating such opposition. But I have trouble believing it as I once did. I don’t think full activity has ever been more than 30 or 40%. And whenever we talk about statistics that indicate commitment, they are hard to get, but people here say we are just as good or better than other religions in terms of committed followership.

So, I will put my faith in my ability to rely on inspiration to help me through tough times, in my ability to achieve good things in this life with God’s help, and in my ability to weather challenges and succeed, most of the time, when I take risks.

I have had too many experiences where I have petitioned God to grant me with breaks in lifelong challenges and nothing happens. I continue to suffer and suffer and suffer and the problem never goes away! I see my son suffering and it never goes away. When I was younger I suffered immensely and showed great faith in God and felt like I was “sucking air through a straw”. I feel much more at peace realizing we are dealt a hand in this life. Our faith is most efficient when placed in bolstering our personal self-confidence.

As Marcus Aurelius said ‘Fear not the future,for you will deal with it with the same abilities that allow you to conquer the challenges of today”. Not to fear, to take calculated risks, and more.

There was a video from Lindybeige on Youtube, which I found to be very interesting, on Religion and War in Ancient Freece and Rome. It’s definitely worth the watch. To sum up part of it, the Greek/Roman armies would often have an oracle with them, to fortell and give counsel. We’ve got plenty of stories where the oracles promised victory, and it would come true. We also have stories where a general would go against the counsel of an oracle to their utter ruin. But we have NO stories from ancient Greece or Rome when an oracle was ever wrong in their prophecy. So were the Greek gods actually real? Did the oracles actually have the gift of prophecy? Or simply put, does faith make good followers?

Or, do we only know the stories that prove the point? That is, when the oracles predicted something that didn’t happen (e.g. the army got their butts kicked) do we just not know that story? I often think about this in testimony meetings – we rarely hear about the stories where the individual prayed really hard for something or gave a priesthood blessing and it they didn’t find their car keys or the person wasn’t healed – but we all know those things happen.

Reminds me of something I mull over regularly. If you take the “Christian” out of the 2,060 Sons of Helaman, it tells a different story. It’s not a bad story – be courageous, be loyal, stand with your comrades, remember your roots, be wise in extreme decisions, find good leaders/mentors to follow…

When I was in the MTC, I was talking one on one with a teacher there. He went on a long spiel about faith and healing. He claimed that if you had faith, ANYTHING could be healed. Just like that. All it took was enough faith and the priesthood he told me. What he didn’t know, was that he was talking to a kid who had just lost his mom 6 months earlier to an 11 year long battle with ovarian cancer. There were plenty of priesthood blessings and prayers during those 11 years. It didn’t magically take away her cancer. So I just chimed in on his faith healing rant by adding, “If God wills it.” He seemed slightly taken aback by that.

Maybe it’s because I lost my mom when I was 18, but I’ve lost my pair of rose-colored glasses when it comes to miracles. That’s not to say that they can’t happen. I believe they can. It just depends on if our Father in Heaven wants it to happen.