Gospel and Ethics Land Mine

One of the ethical schools of thought is that God sets the commandments and expects obedience. From this idea if God where to command the opposite of what he has heretofore commanded than that would change the ethical choice. This is an idea taught in Mormonism.

Another belief of Mormonism is that God inspired the framers of the US constitution and the bill of rights and presumably any other document that has led to the advancement of human kind. Thus it can be argued that many of our systems of government and schools of ethics can be traced back to God in helping us to live in relative peace one with another.

One of the straw man arguments put up by Christians is that without God there are no rules except kill or be killed and brute force (The movie “God is Not Dead” makes this argument as their microphone drop moment). The very existence of these different schools of ethics make it clear that one can live a moral and ethical life without a belief in God.

I’m not the best person to ask for scholarly definitions for ethics but you have to be careful with the OT. Sometimes the message appears to be “might makes right.”

One of the straw man arguments put up by Christians is that without God there are no rules except kill or be killed and brute force (The movie “God is Not Dead” makes this argument as their microphone drop moment). The very existence of these different schools of ethics make it clear that one can live a moral and ethical life without a belief in God.

I don’t consider this a straw man at all. On a smaller scale, we see regularly that when a legal system breaks down all kinds of things happen and people go off and do whatever they want because they think there will be no consequences.

Why are most crimes committed? Because the criminals either think they won’t get caught (e.g. looting during riots because the police can’t handle the volume), or the punishment won’t exceed the crime. A few exceptions to this but that’s another story.

One can apply this exact same argument to God. It doesn’t prove God exists, but it does prove God is a useful myth (if not real) of course, which helps humanity function in a more civilized manner. Many, but not all, who believe in God, have the idea that their good and bad will be repaid.

While there are those who live decent lives without the concept of a human police force and without God, the brutal truth is that a world like that would be a disaster. The strongest would prevail against those whose morality was more altruistic, except in those survival situations where a collective action was needed. Many people would not feel the need to be good, just as many do not today – the only thing they would have is social cohesion. But the reason most people do not behave like that is because there are legal penalties. We actually have a lot of psychopaths and sociopaths in the world. Most are intelligent enough to realize crime is a bad route.

In terms of evil, the Christian worldview does have an Achilles’ heel, namely that evil people who believe in God can try and turn to God before they die. Many have reportedly done this and it explains the Middle Ages when the vast majority believed in God. But even that is not entirely bad as we don’t know when we’ll die. However, in theological terms that removes the deterrent for some people to do good during most of their lives.

I suppose that it would be interesting to study whether atheists live lives that are more or less or about the same ethical as their Christian counterparts.

I think it would be interesting – but there would need to be a distinct category for agnostics. My reasoning is that atheists do not believe in God or a higher force, agnostics don’t believe or disbelief in God or a higher force, and believers do believe in God or a higher force.

In Atheism and Theism, alike, it is easy to find people who live by strong sense of obligation to do good and to avoid doing wrong. It is, unfortunately, also easy to find people in both groups who don’t. So, from that standpoint, I don’t believe that Atheists are any more susceptible to anarchy than any other group.

That said, I do think there is a valid argument for the what SamBee has said…

… God is a useful myth (if not real) of course, which helps humanity function in a more civilized manner. Many, but not all, who believe in God, have the idea that their good and bad will be repaid.

If we were all altruistic and bound by our inner drive to act ethically, I don’t think there would be so much need for laws and law enforcement.

There’s a line in an old Smiths’ song in which Morrissey says

And if you think peace is the common goal,/it goes to show how little you know

I really think this is the case. You might want peace, I might want peace, but that doesn’t mean the person two doors down does. She might enjoy creating chaos and drama. The man across the street may secretly dream of power and asserting it over others.

There are people out there who do want your things, do want to fight and do want to do other things. And they’re not a tiny minority – listen to the abuse some people shout at each other at sports games from the bleachers. Unfortunately we’re not all altruistic. In fact I would go so far as to say as the people who try to be, don’t manage it a fair percentage of the time.

Religion goes wrong when it becomes a mob, but it’s right when it encourages kindness to other people.

Most people are a mixture of good and bad urges. I think nature and nurture both play a part.